[Från: PowerfulChoices [PowerfulChoices@gmail.com]
Skickat: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:30 AM
Till: 'Toby Joreteg'
Ämne: VB: Daniel's Messiah - Newsletter #1 - updated (effecting quality
of links only)]
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all English translation of this email, please press this link! / 5930± 02
17 2026 by ToL©]
Hej Torbjörn,
Tack för att jag får förmånen och förtroendet att vara
mottagare av ditt Newsletter om ”Daniel’s
Messiah!”
Jag är övertygad om att det ligger ett ytterligt stort
värde i detta med att lyfta fram Messias i det budskap Gud ger oss på olika
sätt, i synnerhet då sådana budskap som vi som ett folk av
Sjundedagsadventister sätter stort värde i och som på olika sätt
fortsättningsvis är viktiga för oss.
Liksom du är jag helt övertygad om att Gud har mycket
mera att ge oss, att välsigna oss med, i de texter som ligger till grund för de
trospunkter vi hitintills funnit viktigast. Ja, i synnerhet i just de texterna!
Just därför är det ju så viktigt för oss att inför oss själva var och en,
liksom även tillsammans som ett adventfolk, lyfta fram just ”Daniel´s Messiah”, eller
hur?
Sen finns det ju fortsättningsvis detta problem med
svårigheten att se de svarta hålen i oss själva. Och det gäller ju även oss
själva som ett adventfolk, inte bara oss själva som individer, eller hur? Det
är ju inte alltid så lätt att komma fri från de missuppfattningar vi som oftast
omhuldat hitintills i våra liv kanske ända sedan vår allra tidigaste barndom, dvs rörande den faktiska och rent objektiva verkligheten.
[Denna mening redigerades 2010-10-25 /GS] Dit hör ju
som du vet, och som du själv tydligt medgivit som något som vi kanske har
anledning att ifrågasätta, detta med år 31 som året för Jesu korsfästelse, dvs
enligt traditionell adventistisk uttolkning kontra den objektiva verkligheten.
Dit hör även en hel del annat bagage som kommit med i följe allt det som bygger
på intet annat än just den förutsättningen, nämligen huruvida 31 var året för
just den händelsen. Jag tänker då på mycket av det vi som ett adventfolk
traditionellt kopplar ihop med diverse ordvändningar i Daniels 8:e kapitel m.fl.. Jag gläder mig åt att se din villighet att söka vidare
och att studera dessa Daniels ord djupare i syfte att finna mera, mycket mera,
av allt det som Gud har i förvar för oss var och en. Jag hyser inga tvivel om
att du inte inser att både du och jag fortsättningsvis är belastade med
misstolkningar om både ett och annat vad gäller inte minst Daniels bok och
Daniels 8:e kapitel i synnerhet.
Tack i synnerhet för det du bidragit med till att fylla
ett sådant svart hål i mig! Jag tänker på kejsar Tiberius tideräkning som ju är
vår egen västerländska tideräkning, den som vi benämner den Julianska kalendern
och den Gregorianska kalendern. Ja, vi har ju talat om detta tidigare, så du ju
vet vad jag menar.
Kanske kan du finna ett och annat av värde ytterligare
bland allt det jag funnit i mina djupdykanden i Guds ord under senare år,
kanske i synnerhet sådant som ligger nära dina egna studier i Daniels bok? Det
finns ju väldigt mycket där och jag tror mig förstå att du sannolikt inte är
beredd att, som man säger, ”köpa allt” jag har att erbjuda på en gång. Om du inte tycker du har tid att titta på djupet
in i alla mina länkar nedan, och det räknar jag med att du inte har, kanske
jag får be dig om att ändå titta lite närmare på den länk som rör de ord i
Daniels bok vilka bl.a. i KJV översatts med orden ”the end”?
Du hittar länken under det du i ditt Newsletter #1
nedan benämnt som ” 3.
A “time of the end.” ”
När jag läser ditt Newsletter
finner jag både ett och annat jag skulle kunna kommentera på olika sätt, men
skulle jag göra så på ett oklokt sätt finns säkert risken att det jag skriver
skulle uppfattas negativt och att det skulle kunna leda till en försämring av
vår relation med varandra och det önskar jag verkligen inte. Tanken kom därför
till mig att jag skulle kunna koppla diverse länkar till dina egna ord i de Newsletter du skickar mig från tid till annan, kanske då
och då även med en kort [hak]parentetisk kommentar. På så sätt blir
det ju helt upp till dig och ditt eget intresse hur djupt du vill gräva bland
allt det som jag möjligen har att erbjuda. Samtidigt blir det ju också på det
viset tydligt att det jag skrivit inte alls är avsett som riktat mot dig eller
mot något som du skrivit eller talat om. Jag har ju som oftast skrivit det jag
skrivit under mina länkar långt innan du ens författat dina Newletter,
eller hur? Så, hellre än att se mina länkar och kommentarer som kritik, kanske
du kan se det som en indikation på hur Gud leder oss var och en, dig och mig,
att rikta våra blickar väldigt mycket mot samma objekt och att i samband därmed
lära av och förmedla till varandra - och till andra - vadhelst vi, du och jag,
är förberedda och mottagliga för av det Gud talar till oss var och en? Och kom
ihåg: För mig är namnen ´Jesus´ och ´Kristus´ ord med viktiga betydelser, det
förra med fokus på vars och ens vår vandring mot Guds Rike, dvs
Jag ärs väg i riktning mot vars och ens vårt
uppmärksammande av sanningen om vårt eget liv, det senare med fokus på ta emot
den smörjelse som innebär att vars och ens våra tankar, hjärnor, och huvuden
blir ingnodda med Guds eget ljus. I synnerhet då
beträffande din term ”Daniels Messias” och det som rör mina kronologiska
upptäckter rörande Daniels bok såväl som resten av Guds Ord…
Ja, det har redan blivit ganska många ord här ovan, så
jag kanske gör klokt i att avsluta här för denna gång… dock med tillägg av
nämnda länkar och kommentarer i kopian av ditt Newsletter
nedan… Men, som
sagt var, har du inte tid för mycket annat så hoppas jag ändå att du tar
dig en ordentlig funderare på det ordstudium jag gjort rörande det som i
Daniels bok översatts med orden ”ändens tid”! Är
vi som ett adventfolk villiga att växa vidare med de strålar av ljus vår Herre
från tid till annan delger oss var och en? Eller väljer vi, som enskilda eller
som en ”Adventkyrka”, att, i likhet med den Romersk Katolska kyrkan, söka dölja
våra felsteg, våra felaktiga irrläror, under en mantel av falskt ljus, likt det
som representeras under namnet Lucifer? Jämför {EW 54.2} - {EW 56.1}! Hur
handskas jag med de strålar av ljus Gud låter skina min väg via dina studier?
Ja, det är ju en fråga för min egen eftertanke, eller hur?
Kanske kan du något lite glädjas över att se hur jag tar
mig tid att reflektera över de ord Gud låter dig återspegla i min riktning?...
Guds frid över er familj, ert hem och ert hus önskar jag
fortsättningsvis er alla,
Gunnar ©
Från: tobyjoreteg@gmail.com [mailto:tobyjoreteg@gmail.com]
För Toby Joreteg
Skickat: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:15 PM
Ämne: Daniel's Messiah
Dear friends,
I am starting a Newsletter called “Daniel’s Messiah.” I have chosen you from my e-mail address list because I believe that you have a special interest in a Bible study [Notice: Except for the links to Toby’s web site, all links and brackets within are added; Within my comments to the first few of Toby’s Newsletters you’ll find green font being generally used and red font whenever I wish for something to stand out a bit more… / 5930± 02 17 2026 by ToL©] that goes beyond the usual. You will be challenged and blessed at the same time.
If you don’t want to receive this newsletter, please let me know.
The newsletter attached shows how it is possible to see Messiah and His first coming as the core fulfillment of Daniel 8. When doing so, Daniel 8 and 9 goes hand in hand and glorifies Jesus Christ!
With my Swedish background there will be some grammatical mistakes here and there, but I hope that you will overlook them and focus on the content. If you do, I pray that blessings will fill you and inspire you to further inductive Bible study [See slide #14 within the PowerPoint presentation under that last link! It is a quote from CSW 34.3! / All bracketed comments within are added by Tree of Life ©].
For further study, see my website: www.TobyJoreteg.com
The material presented will glorify God’s Name and give Him honor and praise! There is no room for self-glorification in these newsletters! It is time to humble ourselves before our Maker…
Your friend,
Toby Joreteg M.D., Ph.D.
Loma Linda, CA
Newsletter: 1
Messiah in Daniel 8
Key Issues in Daniel 8:13 and 19
Background
For us who belong to the Seventh Day Adventist Church all prophecies are very important but especially Daniel 8. We are convinced that Daniel 8 was fulfilled in 1844 [At the link, please read at least the first 10 paragraphs under the one beginning "Well, per the conventional order of Ezra and Nehemiah..." Notice: Except for the links to Toby’s web site, all links and brackets within are added / 5930± 02 17 2026 by ToL©] and since our denomination was founded in the aftermath of the great disappointment, we must have a significant role to play. Our interpretation of Daniel 8 gives a good reason for our existence. It leads us to believe that we are an important stepping stone in God’s history. On the other hand, if we don’t have this support from Daniel 8, many feel that our existence is not justified.
But, the concept of looking at ourselves is certainly not the theme of the Gospels and not in the rest of the Bible either. The focus in the New Testament is on Jesus Christ and on what He has accomplished! Wouldn’t it make sense that this perspective also should be the guideline in our interpretation of Daniel 8? I pray that you will be willing to look at Daniel 8:19, 13 and 14 with Jesus Christ, the Messiah as the focus and the fulfillment of this prophecy.
The purpose is NOT to cause factions – but healing to a divided church; not to cause confusion – but Joy in the Lord. This happens when we lift up Jesus Christ and not ourselves. The significance of these articles is to glorify Jesus and to see Him as the primary fulfillment of all prophecy. This attitude gives Daniel 8 a new perspective and opens doors for new understanding. The simple key is to take the time periods in Daniel 8-12 literally.
I invite you to an exciting study with the focus on Daniel’s Messiah. Personally I give all glory, honor and praise to God who through His Spirit has given me the insight I am about to share with you as a reader.
A Sacred Feast
In Hebrew writings we often find a summary first followed by a more detailed description. It is very important to recognize this when studying the Bible. In Daniel 8 we don’t find the summary in conjunction with the vision in verses 1-14, but in the interpretation part in verse 19. The importance of this summary needs to be acknowledged, if we want to find the correct interpretation. When it is recognized, the prophecy in Daniel 8 should highlight three issues:
1. A “time of wrath”
2. An “appointed time” and
3. A “time of the end [At the link, after reading the abstract, please consider the TLT (Tree of Life © Time version) translations found at items ##83-95 re Daniel’s use of one particular Hebrew word translated “the end.”] ”
Number one does not need further explanation, as long as its fulfillment in Daniel 8 refers to an explicit event of God’s wrath. The moment the 2,300 evenings and mornings in Daniel 8 ends, God’s wrath should be manifested.
I have in a book showed that Daniel 8 refers to Christ’s first coming as the Messiah and that is what I will portray in these articles.[1] With this perspective Jesus took upon Himself God’s wrath on mankind when He died on the cross. That is a well accepted fact and does not need to be proven in this article.
The word for “appointed” in the second criterion refers to a “sacred season” or a “set feast.” “The appointed time,” would then refer to the Passover feast and, of course, we all know that Daniel’s Messiah died during that feast.
The third criterion refers to the time of the end but it is extremely important to find out how “the end” is defined in the context. The “time of the end” is an expression which is often mistakenly thought to refer to the end of this world. In Daniel 12:13 the word “end” is used twice. The first time it refers to the death of Daniel and the second time, “the end of days,” to Jesus’ second coming. But mostly the “end” in Daniel 8-12 refers to [At the link, please cf. each of items #83-95!] the time when Israel chose to end their Covenant with God. This happened when they condemned Jesus Christ and handed Him over to the Gentiles to be crucified.[2] But to prove that is outside the scope of this article.
If not all three components stated in Daniel 8:19 are fulfilled, we do not have a true interpretation of this prophecy. How many of these three criterions are met in our traditional interpretation of Daniel 8?
How Long?
Our focus here will be on the core part of Daniel 8:13-14. In verse 13 a conversation takes place. The question is “how long” will it be before the vision in Daniel 8 is fulfilled? The first thing we need to notice is that this question points to “the end” of the vision. When the 2,300 evenings and mornings have come to an end, these four questions will have found their answers. The obvious reasons for these four questions are to define the vision, to help us understand it correctly and to point to a very important event at the end of the 2,300 evenings and mornings. Daniel 8:13:
Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?" (NKJV)
1) The Daily Sacrifices
The first question to define the end point for the 2,300 evenings and mornings concerns the “daily sacrifice.” The good news is that we do not need to speculate what the Bible has in mind. We already know from Daniel 8:11 and 12 what this question refers to. There it says that the daily sacrifice “was taken away.” So that is the issue Daniel 8:13 refers to! In that case the time period, which we soon will study, ended when the daily sacrifice was taken away.
We have two possible options. One is when the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D and the other option is when the True Lamb, Jesus Christ, was slain on the cross in 31 A.D. Daniel 9:27 tells us plainly that in the middle of the last week, i.e. in 31 A.D., “he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.” When the True lamb had been slain, no more sacrifices were needed. Thus, the first statement regarding the prophetic time period in Daniel 8 was fulfilled at the cross.
2) The Rebellion that Causes Desolation
The second defining statement is the “transgression of desolation,” according to the NKJV, or “rebellion that causes desolation” as the NIV writes it. Both alternatives are appropriate. The word for “transgression” could also be translated to “rebellion.” It was the persistent transgression of Daniel’s people that finally led to “desolation.” The house of Judah was given 490 years to “finish transgression,” “put an end to sin” and “atone for wickedness” – but it did not happen. The desolation was a fact!
If we do a word study on “desolation,” we will find two possible interpretations. The most common one means that an area has no or very few inhabitants. The second option suggests “separation,” being “forsaken,” “not married” or “divorced [Consider the wholesale divorce action of Ezra!].” [3] The second option is the one that fits best to Daniel 8. When Jesus died on the cross, the desolation was a fact. The Old Covenant people was no longer married to God when Christ died.[4] Thus, the second question regarding this prophetic time period in Daniel 8 finds its answer at the cross.
3) The Sanctuary Trampled Underfoot
The third defining statement to explain the time period in Daniel 8:14 refers to the sanctuary [Consider the two-in-oneness, di-vinity/duo-unity, image of God sanctuary of Genesis 1:27!] that will be trampled underfoot. This is probably meant in a symbolical way since we don’t believe in giants that literally would “trample” the sanctuary. In John 2:19-21 Jesus plainly tells us that He is the Sanctuary. Similar statements can be found in Revelation 21:22 and Isaiah 8:13-14. If we accept that Jesus is the Sanctuary, He was “trampled” on when He died on the cross. This interpretation would also fit the expression, “His sanctuary was cast down,” found in Daniel 8:11. Thus, the third defining statement regarding this prophetic time period in Daniel 8 finds its fulfillment at the cross. [Yes indeed, and don’t forget the two-in-oneness of God where Christ is one and God’s People are the other one! Per Romans 7:4 and per Revelation 21:2, 9! To what extent are we using each our God given powers in support of a State whose prime focus is the destruction of the family unit? That is, the wholesale divorce action of our own days?]
4) The Host Trampled Underfoot
The fourth question concerns a “host” that also was trampled underfoot. If you put the vision in verses 1-14 and the interpretation in verses 15-27 side-by-side in two columns, you will find that the counterpart to “the “host of the saints” in verse 12 is “holy people” in verse 24 [Consider “the mightyH6099 and the holyH6918 people.H5971” while focusing upon the English word “husband” or Ellen White’s term “house-band” and Strong’s H6099 and its root H6105! To what extent are we using each our God given powers in support of a State whose prime focus is the destruction of the family unit by means of questioning and making suspicious the authority of the father as the head of the household?] The holy people in the Old Covenant were the Israelites and we have already seen how the “divorce” was a fact when Messiah died on the cross. In this sense Israel, as God’s holy people, were trampled underfoot. Thus, the fourth question regarding this prophetic time period in Daniel 8 also finds its answer at the cross.
It is interesting to see that questions one and three in Daniel 8:13 pertain to Messiah and questions two and four to the Old Covenant people. [Yes, and think of those numbers in terms of each of the two ones in the two-in-oneness, di-unit-y of the Family of God, one and three representing the house-band and two and four representing the People of God as the bride of Christ. Consider also Jesus’ words per Matthew 22:37-39 in terms of the first Five Commandments representing each our relationship with God and the second Five Commandments representing each our relationship with the People of God!]
Summary
The four criterions that define the question “how long” all refer to the same crucial point in history [- and its extension even into our own lives and society as, yes, even as formalized State registered and State controlled SDA Church… Are we learning from history? Or, are we repeating history?] It is easy from the context to realize that all were fulfilled [“Fulfilled?” Or, a symbolic action “perfected” as a teaching tool from which each one of us should learn?] as Christ died on the cross. Furthermore, this was the time when Israel’s leaders chose to “end” their Covenant with God. [As in every ‘choice’ being the beginning of a chain action of consequences! Consider the 1st Angel’s Message in terms of “the hour of His judgment is come…” being each our Power of Choice as delegated to each of us per Genesis 2:16-17, that is, as in “the everlasting gospel” of Rev 14:6!] It happened at the Passover feast when Christ took God’s wrath on Himself. To summarize it we will read Daniel 8:13 paraphrased:
“How long
will it take for the vision to be fulfilled, the vision about the daily
sacrifice (that will be taken away), the rebellion that causes desolation
(separation from God), the trampling of the Sanctuary (Jesus Christ) and the
trampling of the host (the Old Covenant people).” [Indeed, ‘How long will it take for this vision, this
realization of the obvious, to be fulfilled…’ in terms of being recognized and
applied in each our life and in each our society?]
This Christ centered interpretation builds a foundation for a new understanding of the prophecy in Daniel 8. Therefore, we need to have another approach when studying the 2,300 evenings and mornings! What at first might look as a deviation from the truth will actually lead us to the real Truth, Jesus Christ. This is the reason for our existence as a denomination! We are here to GLORIFY GOD and not ourselves! In the next two articles we will analyze it further.
Toby Joreteg MD, PhD.
[1] Daniel and the Visions about the End Time. www.TobyJoreteg.com
Daniel’s Messiah: DVD
[2] Matthew 20:18-19, John 19:15, Romans 7:2.
[3] 2 Samuel 13:20, Isaiah 62:4-5, Isaiah 54:1, Matthew 23:37.
[4] John 19:15, Romans 7:2.
Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. PowerfulChoices ©