Från: Tree of Life © Time
[TreeOfLifeTime@gmail.com]
Skickat: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:57 AM
Till: 'Robert Juhl'
Ämne: Nailing down a few conclusions re Phranzae's comet vs moon event...
Without
recourse.
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Written with a beginning on 5923[((*??*)]
04 15 2027
The Third Day [of the week,]
the 15th day of
month #4, 15 Tammuz,
in the 5923rd[(??)] year following the beginning
recorded in Genesis 1
and in the 2027th year
following the
beginning recorded in Luke 1:26-33
[The 15th day
of the month per ancient
Rabbinical reckoning,
15 Av (month #5) per more recent Jewish
reckoning
(based
upon a
decimal error in
Hillel II’s directives causing a wandering of the seasons!),
[Monday evening, the 1st
day of the Pope’s week (as revised in Sweden from 1973 A.D.,)
August 15 in the 2011th
year
of Caesar Tiberius
(per
current Gregorian reckoning in Europe and elsewhere,)
Cf. Daniel 7:25…]
Dear Robert,
Sorry about the delay with this email response! And thanks for
yours!
Yes, we do agree re “Byzantine 6962 = 1 Sep 1453 - 31 Aug 1454.” I
believe that represents a step forwards and in the right direction for both of
us. I enjoy that kind of progress, that kind of learning curve! Thanks!
Unfortunately I do not find myself ready to commit myself re your
item #2 of your August 9 letter. As I have explained before I will need some
help with each of the Greek, Latin, and German texts before I will be prepared
to add that which I perceive I can contribute towards a better understanding of
each of those texts. A reasonably good English translation of each of those
texts would be most helpful to me. Sooner or later I hope to be able to get the
help I need towards that end, but I don’t know how long it will take. There are
professional translators that could provide such translations for a fee, but I
do not have the funds needed for that. I’ve been promised the help I need with
the German text, but not until around September 9th…
Further, given the facts of Halley’s Comet during the late summer
and fall/winter of 1453, as I shared with you in my last prior mail, which hard
[astronomy software] facts may very well fit the original Greek text to a t,
especially if Georgii Phrantzae had a Hebrew/Jewish upbringing(???...) Well, in
that case the Greek word translated “summer” might very well be a reference to
the Scriptural “Feast of Ingathering,” that is, the highlight of the harvest
season, which feast typically falls towards the end of September or sometime in
October and which defines the end of the hot season of the year. For that
matter, who is to say that that wasn’t the common understanding of that Greek
word even among people in general at that time and place? As you can easily
see, if my suspicion re that particular holds up, then that would mean that
we’d be talking about the fall of 1453 and not of the summer beginning any time
in 1454… Thus, if you or I can somehow come up with some background information
re Georgii Phrantzae and his upbringing and educational background and/or a
proper word study of the Greek word translated “summer,” then this may well
prove valuable towards resolving this issue.
Indeed, when I think about that last particular, I should have you
compare the meaning of the following
Greek and Hebrew words using Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries: H6972,
H7019, G2325, G2326, G2330. (You may download Strong’s
and much more for free from e-Sword.net!
Strong’s is part of the default complete e-Sword package, so go ahead and
install the whole package if you have not done so already!) The Greek word used
by Phrantzae corresponds to said Greek words in Strong’s. Furthermore, I once did an
extensive word study of the corresponding Hebrew word, and, lo and behold,
it became obvious to me that those Hebrew words as used quite frequently in the
Bible are consistently mistranslated as “the end,” whereas the true meaning is
“the point of beginning.” Accordingly, the proper translation of Phrantzae’s
Greek words would be, not “In the summer of 6962…,” but “In the beginning of
6962…”
As to the Latin and the German
texts that we are still looking at, that is, those that are translations from the
original, well, regardless of how those passages are written and correctly understood, those passages are necessarily subject to the
limitations of their respective translators. Accordingly, they can by no means
to be considered on par with the first hand witness of the original Greek text.
Indeed, the Latin and German translations can only help us towards a better
understanding of why and how certain confusions as to the exact event, and as
to the exact timing of said event, came to be. That is, the Latin and the
German translations may well be helpful for us towards a more reliable and
correct answer to your questions as posed under your item #3 of your August 9
letter.
Regardless, it is clear from your link, http://tinyurl.com/3r56n8d,
that there does indeed exist a Latin [mis-]translation
of the Greek text to the effect that that Phrantzae’s 6962 comet was
misunderstood as having appeared in 1450 CE. It is clear that C. Leeson Prince
(cf. The Observer, Vol. 16, p.
416 (1893)) is attributing said [mis]translation to a Latin text edited by
Lubienietski in 1667 CE.
Under item #1 of your August 6 mail you provide a reference from MDCLXXV
(=1675 CE) to a certain “The sphere of Marcus Manilius made an English poem by
Edward Sherburne.” Well, the similarities between Sherburne’s “1450
comet” and said Latin [mis]translation from eight years before the publication
of Sherburne’s list of comets, especially in the absence of any listed comets
for any of the years 1451-1455, most conspicuously Halley’s Comet of 1453,
makes it quite obvious that Sherburne’s date is built upon the same Latin
[mis]translation of Phrantzae’s original Greek text as above said, or at least
that it is built upon a similar mistranslation of said original Greek text.
185 years following Lubienietski’s work in 1667 CE we find “W. Schmitz, in Der kleine
Kosmos: eine allgemein verständliche Weltbeschreibung
(1852)” (cf. your email dated July 7, 2011) building
upon the same flawed platform as did Edward Sherburne.
Next in time, 1893 CE, that is, another 218 years after
Sherburne’s publication and 226 years after Lubienietski’s work, comes C.
Leeson Prince who is citing 1. Edward Sherburne, and
2. Lubienietski as “proof beyond any reasonable doubt…” in favor of the year
1450 CE… But, how reliable is that “proof” of his when both of those support
pillars of his are shown to be flawed? It is obvious that his foundation is
based upon sand, that is, upon an obvious mistranslation of an original Greek
text!
Lastly we find “the
collected works of Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, Schriften und Briefe: Kommentar zu Band I und II: 63 (Carl Hanser Verlag, München-Wien, 1992)” (cf. your email dated July 7, 2011.) That is, 325 years
following the original mistranslation we are still finding “credible
scientists” citing an obvious mistranslation in support for their [baseless]
claims!
Well, as anyone should be able to see from the above, this is indeed
an excellent example of the nature inherent in the names Satan, Diabolos, and Devil, that is, Traducer or Gossipmonger.
Sometimes it is quite hard to rid ourselves out of such confusions, is it not?!
Or why else is it that this error is still being propagated some 344 years
after Lubienietski’s 1667 edition of a Latin mistranslation from an original
Greek text re an event that most likely took place in the summer, fall, and
winter of 1453?
It’s about time we all wake up out of our deep confusions, or don’t
you agree with that? Why is it so hard to rid ourselves out of our baseless
trust in human “authorities” of whatever species or denomination such may be?
. . . . . . .
Re your question under item #3 of your August 6 email: I don’t
have a certain answer to your exact question. No, but I found this…:
(Notice: The distance given in
au is from the viewer, not between the Earth and Halley’s
comet. The orbits, within Starry Night Backyard, are twistable and
movable using the touch pad or the mouse. Thus at least a rough guide or
estimate re the distances you are asking about may be assessed:)
Until next…
Shalom,
Gunnar ©
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Robert Juhl <4bartraj2@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Anders,
1. It seems we agree on at least one date, that of Byzantine 6962 = 1 Sep 1453
- 31 Aug 1454.
2. Can we also agree that the comet referred to in the 1st attachment [pg 381-3 (document 378-79, Lib. IV. Cap. VIII) of
Phrantza-AnnalesCSHB.pdf]
and in the 2nd attachment above [pg 161 of
Phrantza-AnnalesMPG.pdf (document pg 958)]
appeared, according to the Latin, some time during
the summer (June through August) of 1454?
3. C. Leeson Prince refers to a comet in AD 1450 [http://tinyurl.com/3r56n8d (The
supposed comet of 1454, The Observatory, Volume 16, 1893, by NASA Astrophysics
Data System Abstract Service)]. Does it seem likely to you that the above comet
of summer 1454 is the same comet that was dated AD 1450 by Lubieniczki
(who apparently just copied from Phrantza) in Historia omnium Cometarum and discussed by Prince? What I'm trying
to figure out is how the comet came to be dated AD 1450. Different manuscripts?
That's enough for now.
Regards
Robert
==================
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Robert Juhl <4bartraj2@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Anders,
I accept your apology. This email will be short because I am busy this
weekend.
1. The set of images from the letter entitled The Supposed Comet of
1454 notes that the comet was mentioned by Sherburne in The
sphere of Marcus Manilius made an English poem, where it was dated 1450.
You will find the exact reference on Pg 204 in his
"Table of Comets" (http://tinyurl.com/6zsxc7n), which starts at pg 194. Sherburne's reference says:
1450: [The comet appeared] In the Summer time, Seen immediately
after Sun-setting, Moved from West to East, and passing under the Moon eclipsed
the same, [it was] Like a two-handed sword.
2. Thank you for the image of Halley's in Starry Night Backyard. I
have never used STB and had no idea that it could be so useful in visualizing
celestial events. I will have to try to get it.
3. Question: Do you know if it is possible to use Starry Night to discover how
close the earth was to the ORBIT of Halley's (not to the comet itself) at any
particular date in the past?
I will try to have some substantial content regarding the comet of
1450/1453/1454 in my next email. That will be next week.
Regards
Robert