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Skickat:                           Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:57 AM

Till:                                  'Robert Juhl'

Ämne:                             Nailing down a few conclusions re Phranzae's comet vs moon event...

 

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Written with a beginning on 5923[((*??*)] 04 15 2027

 

The Third Day [of the week,]

 

the 15th day of month #4, 15 Tammuz,

in the 5923rd[(??)] year following the beginning recorded in Genesis 1

and in the 2027th year following the beginning recorded in Luke 1:26-33

 

[The 15th day of the month per ancient Rabbinical reckoning,

15 Av (month #5) per more recent Jewish reckoning

(based upon a decimal error in Hillel II’s directives causing a wandering of the seasons!),

 

[Monday evening, the 1st day of the Pope’s week (as revised in Sweden from 1973 A.D.,)

August 15 in the 2011th year of Caesar Tiberius

(per current Gregorian reckoning in Europe and elsewhere,)

Cf. Daniel 7:25…]

 

 

 

 

Dear Robert,

 

Sorry about the delay with this email response! And thanks for yours!

Yes, we do agree re “Byzantine 6962 = 1 Sep 1453 - 31 Aug 1454.” I believe that represents a step forwards and in the right direction for both of us. I enjoy that kind of progress, that kind of learning curve! Thanks!

Unfortunately I do not find myself ready to commit myself re your item #2 of your August 9 letter. As I have explained before I will need some help with each of the Greek, Latin, and German texts before I will be prepared to add that which I perceive I can contribute towards a better understanding of each of those texts. A reasonably good English translation of each of those texts would be most helpful to me. Sooner or later I hope to be able to get the help I need towards that end, but I don’t know how long it will take. There are professional translators that could provide such translations for a fee, but I do not have the funds needed for that. I’ve been promised the help I need with the German text, but not until around September 9th

Further, given the facts of Halley’s Comet during the late summer and fall/winter of 1453, as I shared with you in my last prior mail, which hard [astronomy software] facts may very well fit the original Greek text to a t, especially if Georgii Phrantzae had a Hebrew/Jewish upbringing(???...) Well, in that case the Greek word translated “summer” might very well be a reference to the Scriptural “Feast of Ingathering,” that is, the highlight of the harvest season, which feast typically falls towards the end of September or sometime in October and which defines the end of the hot season of the year. For that matter, who is to say that that wasn’t the common understanding of that Greek word even among people in general at that time and place? As you can easily see, if my suspicion re that particular holds up, then that would mean that we’d be talking about the fall of 1453 and not of the summer beginning any time in 1454… Thus, if you or I can somehow come up with some background information re Georgii Phrantzae and his upbringing and educational background and/or a proper word study of the Greek word translated “summer,” then this may well prove valuable towards resolving this issue.

Indeed, when I think about that last particular, I should have you compare the meaning of the following Greek and Hebrew words using Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries: H6972, H7019, G2325, G2326, G2330. (You may download Strong’s and much more for free from e-Sword.net! Strong’s is part of the default complete e-Sword package, so go ahead and install the whole package if you have not done so already!) The Greek word used by Phrantzae corresponds to said Greek words in Strong’s. Furthermore, I once did an extensive word study of the corresponding Hebrew word, and, lo and behold, it became obvious to me that those Hebrew words as used quite frequently in the Bible are consistently mistranslated as “the end,” whereas the true meaning is “the point of beginning.” Accordingly, the proper translation of Phrantzae’s Greek words would be, not “In the summer of 6962…,” but “In the beginning of 6962…”

As to the Latin and the German texts that we are still looking at, that is, those that are translations from the original, well, regardless of how those passages are written and correctly understood, those passages are necessarily subject to the limitations of their respective translators. Accordingly, they can by no means to be considered on par with the first hand witness of the original Greek text. Indeed, the Latin and German translations can only help us towards a better understanding of why and how certain confusions as to the exact event, and as to the exact timing of said event, came to be. That is, the Latin and the German translations may well be helpful for us towards a more reliable and correct answer to your questions as posed under your item #3 of your August 9 letter.

Regardless, it is clear from your link, http://tinyurl.com/3r56n8d, that there does indeed exist a Latin [mis-]translation of the Greek text to the effect that that Phrantzae’s 6962 comet was misunderstood as having appeared in 1450 CE. It is clear that C. Leeson Prince (cf. The Observer, Vol. 16, p. 416 (1893)) is attributing said [mis]translation to a Latin text edited by Lubienietski in 1667 CE.

Under item #1 of your August 6 mail you provide a reference from MDCLXXV (=1675 CE) to a certain “The sphere of Marcus Manilius made an English poem by Edward Sherburne.” Well, the similarities between Sherburne’s “1450 comet” and said Latin [mis]translation from eight years before the publication of Sherburne’s list of comets, especially in the absence of any listed comets for any of the years 1451-1455, most conspicuously Halley’s Comet of 1453, makes it quite obvious that Sherburne’s date is built upon the same Latin [mis]translation of Phrantzae’s original Greek text as above said, or at least that it is built upon a similar mistranslation of said original Greek text.

185 years following Lubienietski’s work in 1667 CE we find “W. Schmitz, in Der kleine Kosmos: eine allgemein verständliche Weltbeschreibung (1852)” (cf. your email dated July 7, 2011) building upon the same flawed platform as did Edward Sherburne.

Next in time, 1893 CE, that is, another 218 years after Sherburne’s publication and 226 years after Lubienietski’s work, comes C. Leeson Prince who is citing 1. Edward Sherburne, and 2. Lubienietski as “proof beyond any reasonable doubt…” in favor of the year 1450 CE… But, how reliable is that “proof” of his when both of those support pillars of his are shown to be flawed? It is obvious that his foundation is based upon sand, that is, upon an obvious mistranslation of an original Greek text!

Lastly we find “the collected works of Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, Schriften und Briefe: Kommentar zu Band I und II: 63 (Carl Hanser Verlag, München-Wien, 1992)” (cf. your email dated July 7, 2011.) That is, 325 years following the original mistranslation we are still finding “credible scientists” citing an obvious mistranslation in support for their [baseless] claims!

Well, as anyone should be able to see from the above, this is indeed an excellent example of the nature inherent in the names Satan, Diabolos, and Devil, that is, Traducer or Gossipmonger. Sometimes it is quite hard to rid ourselves out of such confusions, is it not?! Or why else is it that this error is still being propagated some 344 years after Lubienietski’s 1667 edition of a Latin mistranslation from an original Greek text re an event that most likely took place in the summer, fall, and winter of 1453?

It’s about time we all wake up out of our deep confusions, or don’t you agree with that? Why is it so hard to rid ourselves out of our baseless trust in human “authorities” of whatever species or denomination such may be?

 

. . . . . . .

 

Re your question under item #3 of your August 6 email: I don’t have a certain answer to your exact question. No, but I found this…:

(Notice: The distance given in au is from the viewer, not between the Earth and Halley’s comet. The orbits, within Starry Night Backyard, are twistable and movable using the touch pad or the mouse. Thus at least a rough guide or estimate re the distances you are asking about may be assessed:)

Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01CC5C0A.D1A26150

 

Description: Description: cid:image002.png@01CC5C0A.D1A26150

 

 

Until next…

Shalom,

 

Gunnar ©

 

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Robert Juhl <4bartraj2@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

Hello Anders,

1. It seems we agree on at least one date, that of Byzantine 6962 = 1 Sep 1453 - 31 Aug 1454. 

2. Can we also agree that the comet referred to in the 1st attachment [pg 381-3 (document 378-79, Lib. IV. Cap. VIII) of Phrantza-AnnalesCSHB.pdf]

Description: Description: cid:image003.png@01CC5C0A.D1A26150

and in the 2nd attachment above [pg 161 of Phrantza-AnnalesMPG.pdf (document pg 958)]

Description: Description: cid:image003.png@01CC5C0A.D1A26150

appeared, according to the Latin, some time during the summer (June through August) of 1454? 

3. C. Leeson Prince refers to a comet in AD 1450  [http://tinyurl.com/3r56n8d (The supposed comet of 1454, The Observatory, Volume 16, 1893, by NASA Astrophysics Data System Abstract Service)]. Does it seem likely to you that the above comet of summer 1454 is the same comet that was dated AD 1450 by Lubieniczki (who apparently just copied from Phrantza) in Historia omnium Cometarum and discussed by Prince? What I'm trying to figure out is how the comet came to be dated AD 1450. Different manuscripts?

That's enough for now. 

Regards

Robert

==================

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Robert Juhl <4bartraj2@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Anders,

I accept your apology. This email will be short because I am busy this weekend. 

1. The set of images from the letter entitled The Supposed Comet of 1454 notes that the comet was mentioned by Sherburne in The sphere of Marcus Manilius made an English poem, where it was dated 1450. You will find the exact reference on Pg 204 in his "Table of Comets" (http://tinyurl.com/6zsxc7n), which starts at pg 194. Sherburne's reference says: 

1450: [The comet appeared] In the Summer time, Seen immediately after Sun-setting, Moved from West to East, and passing under the Moon eclipsed the same, [it was] Like a two-handed sword.

2. Thank you for the image of Halley's in Starry Night Backyard. I have never used STB and had no idea that it could be so useful in visualizing celestial events. I will have to try to get it. 

3. Question: Do you know if it is possible to use Starry Night to discover how close the earth was to the ORBIT of Halley's (not to the comet itself) at any particular date in the past? 

I will try to have some substantial content regarding the comet of 1450/1453/1454 in my next email. That will be next week. 

Regards

Robert