119 Responses to The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma

  1. Laodi Cean says:

    This seems that it is serious dilemma in our church. Some thought the answer is simple. Some thought that it should not be simplified. If music genre and bible versions already divided many of Adventist churches, how much more this would be.
    I think issues here are
    1. Identity of Samoan church with the community in terms of the day of worship
    2. extent of the influence of governments shifting the days especially those that are in the IDL in our sabbath keeping
    3. Adventist Pioneers sabbath day legacy when they started the church in Samoa
    4. Historical changes in the IDL in that region
    5. Continuity of the 7-day cycle and whether God endowed holiness on the physical minutes of the sabbath day based on the original sabbath cycle on eden or it is endowed based on the human knowledge of time.
    (i.e. we keep the sabbath not at the same time around the world, but when God rested and blessed that first sabbath during the first Friday sunset in eden, most likely opposite region of earth where the Samoa is still in early morning of Friday)
    6. Technicalities regarding division of day in IDL (GMT, original location of Eden)
    7. Validity/Acceptability of human sincerity when detailed explanation in the Scriptures are not explicitly stated
    in this kind of modern issue
    8. The authority of the local conference/union in their territory and the extent power of the worldwide body of believers to define rules for local members

    There are many other issues but i think these ones are among prominent.Though its much convenient to stay neutral in this issue, it seems that there is no way one can compromise or be neutral in this kind of issue.

    Some questions are needed arise in my mind when I heard this story:
    1. Is it possible that the church (local, conference or world church) may decide (whatever decision it is)about this issue today and later found out that what they have made a mistake in that decision and later change it? (Our church leadership and official postions even those that are proclaimed by the highest levels are not infallible, as we can see from our history).
    2. If the church leaders or individual are not infallible, must they be obeyed based on the divine Providence that appoint them in that position so that the unity and credibility of our church can be preserved? Or must we respect the freedom of conscience and risk a major division in our church in this issue? (Remember, if we are not careful to have a clearcut explanation in the official decision, opponents of our church can capitalize this issue as an example to prove our inconsistency regarding what we believe)
    3. What could be the advised from out late messenger/prophet Ellen G. White had she had been alive she been alive during these days? (Though often times she delivered messages that is cuts our conscience which most of us do not like, how would be well if someone like her can say to us “Thus saith the Lord to the believers in Samoa and to the Adventist church as a whole…)
    4. What if this scenario happened not only in Samoa but in the whole world when an international government association like UN or G20 decide to shift the day of the whole world based scientific fact (which obviously would be a fabrication of “scientific data”) or some economic reason? How would we stand?
    5. Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my sabbath with a clear consience?

    I admit that I do not know now what should be the correct position of our church in this issue. But what I believe is that God has the corrects answer for these problems and because He love us so much to the extent that He gave his life for us, he would not desire to leave us divided and confuse in this serious issue, especially if all we want is to follow His will. He may just want to show us that despite our century and a half long knowledge regarding the doctrine of Sabbath, we still have many things to learn and still needed to seek diligently again our Scriptures just like our pioneers before us. May God bless our church with the knowledge of God and presence of His spirit.

    • R. G. White says:

      Dear Laodi,

      Thank you for your valuable contribution to this discussion. Much has been said here already, in regard to your 8 points. By way of review, and in the interest of brevity, I’ll just touch on them.

      1. On the need to identify with the community, frankly, this issue is huge in the view of a number of commentators.

      2. Any government influence over our Sabbath keeping seems to be incidental in this case. The very worst possibility (according to the “official” opinion) would be our observing the 6th day as the Sabbath. Even then, that would not be the false papal Sabbath (i.e. Sunday) against which we must be on guard.

      3. I can just imagine our pioneers rolling over in their metaphorical graves, to think that any effort to honour them should lead our people into “Sunday” observance now.

      4. A focus on the historical changes in Samoa seems to lead only to confusion, with some saying that the Samoans must now observe “Sunday,” while most (unintentionally) imply that American Samoans should have been observing “Friday” ever since 1892. It appears the only way out of this confusion is to look beyond the history of Samoa and to develop a global perspective.

      5, 6. If God has indeed endowed holiness on the physical minutes, we seem to lack any real basis for deciding just what minutes these might be, roughly halfway around the world from Eden. And it seems it may be just as well, as the implementation of our own technically correct “Sabbath-keeping Dateline” could only lead to some highly impractical results, including “Sunday” and/or “Friday” observance in various locations. The only way out of this problem appears to be acceptance of the International Dateline, even if it means adjusting to any changes.

      7. Are we asking the right question? Rather than ask whether God will accept our sincerity, perhaps we should be asking how we can honour His name before the world. Even if the Scriptures offer no detailed explanations of Sabbath keeping on a round world, we still have the words of Christ that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” Shouldn’t this settle the matter?

      8. It appears that those who differ with the mission leadership on this issue are motivated by deep personal convictions, seemingly supported by the facts.

      I like your 5 questions.

      1) Many are praying for just such a change.

      2) As I see it, we Adventists have always given freedom of conscience the highest priority. I guess we just never thought that it would come to this.

      3) The inspired counsel of Ellen White (as I see it) was always of a practical nature. So, I think that we may safely assume that she would be against any impractical solutions.

      4) Clearly, having the whole world’s day shifted would be a very different matter from what we are facing now. For our Samoan brothers and sisters, accepting the present change only means observing the Sabbath along with our New Zealand believers, in a cycle unbroken since creation, just as they have been doing heretofore with our believers in Hawaii and in American Samoa.

      5) “Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when the worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my Sabbath with a clear conscience?”

      Now, here’s a good question! Does anyone have an answer?

  2. Meredeth Robinson says:

    (Moderator, please add brevity to your rules. The comments are too long.)

    LEAP YEAR! United States and others observe leap year every 4 years. One whole day is added to the end of February every 4 years. Are United States citizens in violation of the Sabbath?

    Unfortunately, this has been made too difficult. Any country recognizing the Gregorian calendar should observe Saturday, the 7th day, as Sabbath.

    • Dean West says:

      I’m sorry [edited] but your leap year theory doesn’t hold water because you don’t have double days or skip a day. The weekly cycle stays intact and only the number of the day changes just like it does for all months whether they have 28, 29, 30 or 31 days. It doesn’t matter what the number is you still have 7 day weeks.

  3. Junior Vaz says:

    I am hoping to get a very clean,clear view on the Samoan Sabbath Sunday situation.
    I do not understand the fact regarding the time factor. Can some one make it clear so I’ll be able to do same to others that are now in my position.

    • R. G. White says:

      Dear Junior,

      Yes, my article “The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma” is available here, with some 100 comments following, some of them mine.

      In a nutshell, I’d have to say that there doesn’t seem to be any practical value in looking for some kind of “technically correct” solution that doesn’t make any common sense. The International Dateline is necessarily man-made and arbitrary anyway.

      Why do we exist as a denomination? Are we here to live for ourselves, or to meet the arcane requirements that some might try to attach to God’s law? No, I believe that we must observe whatever the general public regards as the 7th day of the week, within reason, for the sake of our public testimony, if for nothing else. “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”

      This would mean that our Samoan brothers and sisters need to make the adjustment, accepting a one-time 6-day week, and (yes) breaking their own local weekly cycle.

      I believe that this should be no problem for them, because the global weekly cycle will remain unbroken, as it has since creation. They just need to begin celebrating the Sabbath day with their New Zealand brothers and sisters, instead of being on the same day as American Samoa, as heretofore.

      I hope that this can be of help to you.

  4. Jenkins Tesese says:

    R. G. White,

    Could you please refer me to the article that said “the Samatau S.D.A. church is not under the Mission’s administration?”

    The Samatau church is under the Samoa Mission administration, but members of the Samatau church are led by Elders Puni Raea & Sioeli Puni. The second church group to support the Samatau stance are members from the Immanuel church, now worshiping on Mt. Vaea. They are well supported by ministers & church members in N. Z., Australia, the U. S. A. & other parts of the globe, who are now worshiping on Saturday (the Seventh Day of the week).
    [edited by moderator]

    • R. G. White says:

      Dear Jenkins,

      I have reviewed the article in question, and it did not actually state that the Samatau church is not under the Mission administration. I had thought that this was implied in the article, so it was my misunderstanding. Thank you for clearing this up. I apologise for the error, and I shall try to be more careful next time.

      Thank you for the valuable information. May God bless you in your endeavours.

  5. Andrew says:

    I could explain it, but I think it’s far less important than it is made out to be. I have heard people labour under many misconceptions–but this is usually as a result of many things; not the least of which is a lack of basic knowledge about things like time zones, the international dateline, the definition of a day etc.

    Basically, Samoa has jumped over the international dateline from the “American” side to the “Australian” side in order to align with Australia–their biggest trading partner.

  6. Colin Maunder says:

    Jesus kept the Sabbath in Israel on the correct day. On the approximate opposite side of earth at the dateline (imagine it was there then), those on the west side would have started sabbath a few hours before Jesus, while those on the east side, a few hours after. To cross the dateline requires a one off 6 or 8 day week depending on the direction travelled. Samoans who now keep sunday as the 7th day, if they could afford the airfare, could board a plane and travel east around the world and would arrive home and find Saturday as the 7th day. Please accept the one off 6 day week and keep the day before the sunday keepers.

  7. Ian Letele says:

    {This comment has been moved from The Origin of the Sabbath and the 7-Day Week]

    Thank you Sean Pitmen for the insight of this posting. I was wondering within the context of this subject of the 7day cycle, how the Samoa change of time zone should be considered. The Samoan government for economic reasons, aligned the Samoa timezone to regional countries, Australia, New Zealand etc. The change was made on the Friday that resulted with the Saturday being eliminated and the new 7day cycle starting on the Sunday. Some 7th Day Adventists chose to remain with the old 7day cycle, thus now worshiping on Sunday, along with all other Sunday worshipping religions and others aligned their week with the (new) time zone change and remained worshiping on the Saturday.
    I travel frequently for my work and I am subject to time zone changes and wherever I am, I worship on the Sabbath according to the timezone I am in. In some instances, if I travel from the Southern to Northern Hemisphere, I am blessed to enjoy 2 Sabbaths back to back in the same week and if I am traveling from the Northern to the Southern Hemisphere, I will miss a Sabbath, leaving my destination on Friday and arriving on at the next point, on Sunday.
    It is a dilemma for the Samoan 7th Day Adventists brethren, in that it has split the Church into two groups and in the case of those that have chosen to remain on the old 7day cycle and now worshipping on Sunday, the point of differentiation is now lost.
    I would be grateful for your insight and point of view on this (unfortunate) situation that has impacted the Samoan 7th Day Adventist community.
    Thank you, Ian Letele

    • Jenkins Tesese says:

      Talofa Ian & All
      Ian’s dad the late High Chief Leiataua Letele was an elder & great man of God in NZ & Australia who served together with my Dad ,his younger brothers Dave & Lei are true warriors for God at our local church Calvary Community church.
      You are right our point of difference is now lost & our fathers who came from Sunday church families & have to endure so much becos of accepting the Seventh Day Sabbath witness has come to nothing as the church is now keeping Sunday.

  8. Andrew says:

    I think that the way we have traditionally presented and sought to preserve the Sabbath has a lot to do with this current dilemma we face.

    Interestingly enough, this is apparently the second time Samoa has jumped the Dateline, and thus, strictly speaking, they are back where they were when the dateline was originally set.

    As long as the Sabbath’s purpose remains overwhelmingly a “test of obedience”, our relationship towards it will be marred. I think we have badly erred in this regard–and for this reason alone I am wary of another (well-meaning) article on this site which seeks to talk about “circaseptian” rhythms.

    I think all this is badly misguided.

    On a related note, I wonder indeed if we can move to Samoa when the Sunday Laws come–and keep Sabbath on Sunday? (Not trying to make a point, it was just an interesting observation.)

    • H’mm… Andrew, if the devil and his followers can’t tell the difference between a Sunday keeper and a Sabbath keeper, maybe Jesus won’t make a difference either?

      After all, Jesus said, “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.” Matt. 10:32 NKJV

      Food for thought, don’t you think?

  9. Dr Glen Cozens says:

    Jerusalem’s longitude is 35 degrees east. If the date line were 180 degrees west of Jerusalem it would be at longitude 145 west. Samoa is at longitude 173 west so the recent change puts it on the correct side of the “Jerusalem date line”. The same argument holds if you use the Garden of Eden at longitude 45 east and a date line at 135 west. In any case it is better to worship on what the locals call Saturday.

  10. Tyler Cluthe says:

    Some readers seem to fear that the government (whichever one that might be) is going to change Sunday for the Sabbath. It is my understanding from past blue laws and other legislation dealing with Sunday that the intent of those laws was to stop non-religious activity on Sunday. Eventually I can see it extending to prohibiting worship on the Sabbath but that has not been the obvious intent up to this point in time.

  11. Helen Matutu says:

    Thank you all for your valuable comments. Forgive me if I am being persistent on this as I am still confused.
    Before the change in December 2011 the Samoan were observing Saturday as the 7th day according to the 7 day weekly cycle. After the change which eventually occured on Thursday 29th December midnight by skipping 30th Friday and jumped to 31st Saturday, would this be the 7th day as per the 7 day weekly cycle? May be I am being too rigid but this is where I need help. Is it correct to have a 6 day weekly cycle at the beginning in order to aligne with the change and then continue with the 7 day weekly cycle?
    God bless!

  12. Una says:

    Hi Helen.

    I agree. No matter the name of the day, the seven day weekly cycle to be followed. God bless. So if it fell on a Sunday( name of the day) it shouldn’t matter, as like on our birthdays. That is why God had already shar to us in his word thousand years ago about it, as I have shared already, in the scriptures.
    The Samatua church maintain their witness of following the seven day sabbath.

    God bless.

  13. Katushabe Edith Biirah says:

    The time line need serious prayers from all the children of God of all the Four corners of the world, can it be passed we take a week of prayer asking God to intervene and choose for us His day? I believe if we make comments while we are on our knees,our ever knowing God will show us the meaning of all this, trust Him dear brothers and sisters He has all the timeline powers.

  14. Andy © says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Dear R.G. White,

    How about considering the Ark of the Covenant our prime reference point, that is, re all such as pertain to God’s own reckoning of time?

    You have been giving reference to the Garden of Eden numerous times in your above posts, yet, as you yourself have said, we do not know exactly where that place was located.

    When you think about it, isn’t it true that the Flood totally obliterated the surface of our planet as it stood prior to the Flood? And, isn’t it true that the ark of Noah could have circumnavigated the Earth during that year of the Flood?

    But that is not necessarily a problem, is it? Is God a stationary God? Or, is our Creator our Guide and Teacher? The One who is leading each and all among His People tenderly and lovingly and step by little step along the Way as each of us is ready and prepared to accept His leadership?

    May I suggest that, per the definitions provided for us in the Holy Scriptures, the ark of Noah serves as our reference point for God’s reckoning of time for that era of the Flood?

    Likewise, may I suggest that, per the definitions provided for us in the Holy Scriptures, the Ark of the Covenant, that is, the throne of God, serves as our reference point for God’s reckoning of time ever since the time of Moses? Cf. Rev 7:15 & Exodus 25:22

    What do you think?

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