Jonathan: “Dad, where are we going?”
Father: “Son, we’re going to the Johnson’s house.”
Jonathan: “What? Why aren’t we going to church?”
Father: “We are, Jonathan. We’re going to church at the Johnson’s today.”1
Jonathan: “But why, Dad? Why aren’t we going to the same church where we’ve always gone?”
Father: “It’s closed today, Son. They will be having services there tomorrow, on Sunday.”
Could such a scenario actually happen to Adventist believers? Believe it or not, this is the very situation now confronting many Seventh-day Adventist believers in the independent state of Samoa. How did such a state of affairs ever come about? Well, it all revolves around an imaginary boundary commonly known as the “international date line.”
What is the international date line, and how does it affect Sabbath keepers?
Of course, most people are aware that there is such a line, roughly following 180 degrees longitude, where on one side of the line it is considered to be one day, while on the other side it is already the next day. When you really stop and think about it, you realize that some such line, though necessarily arbitrary in nature, must exist somewhere on the globe if there is to be any kind of uniformity in determining what day it is at any given time and place.
How is the “international date line” determined? Is there some kind of international treaty in place?
Interestingly enough, there is not. The “line,” as we call it, is the result of the collective decisions of the various governmental jurisdictions of the world. There is sufficient agreement among these various entities to form a somewhat convoluted line, but which can nevertheless be drawn on a map.
What theory or convention is being followed, in order to achieve this degree of uniformity?
Well, I find that it is commonly believed, among both the religious and the secular, that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. That’s also where the Garden of Eden is considered to have been. So, it would stand to reason that any date line should be somewhere close to halfway around the world from that location. However, the actual international convention for keeping time is a mean time based at an observatory in Greenwich, England. Apparently, this came about just because the English were the first to exert a sufficient global influence. This is what defines 180 degrees longitude, a line which the various governments may or may not follow exactly.
Sabbath keepers have generally not questioned such decisions made by government. However, things can get interesting when one government or another decides to make a change. One could say that the people of any given country used to consider themselves to be in the Far West of the world, but now they will be in the Far East – or vice versa. Independent Samoa (as opposed to American Samoa) is not the first country to make such a change. Many such revisions have been made, from time to time, among the islands of the Pacific. At one time, the date line ran to the east of Alaska. Again, it once ran to the west of the Philippines. In 1892, Samoa made a change. In 2011, the government of independent Samoa decided to reverse the previous move.
All of this begs the question: The Sabbath is holy time. Does any government really have the right to make a decision affecting the observance of God’s holy Sabbath day? We read the following in Genesis 2:3 (NKJV):
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
What is the meaning of the Sabbath blessing of Genesis 2:3?
Here, one is faced with a deeper question. In blessing the seventh day, was God infusing the day itself with a special quality, or was He rather promising to bless those who would observe the seventh day in obedience and sincerity of purpose? The former seems to be an appealing concept to many, but just how is one to picture this in one’s mind? Did this blessing commence in Mesopotamia, spreading at a uniform rate of speed around the circumference of the earth, until it bumped into itself at a line exactly equidistant from its origin? If this were the case, it seems to me that the Sabbath blessing could only be realized by celebrating the day according to an exact comparison of the distance from where one is to the longitude of where the Garden of Eden was, by going either eastward or westward.
What would be the implications of such an approach? Well, for one thing, all generally accepted ideas of what day it is, at any given location, would have to be ignored. From sunset to sunset, one would necessarily end up observing the Sabbath on what the general public is calling Friday, or Saturday, or Sunday! In addition, we Sabbath keepers would have to draw our own Sabbath-keeping “date line,” running straight north and south, and dividing continents, countries, states or provinces, and perhaps even local communities. I write from British Columbia, and I realize that this line would necessarily run somewhere between here and Alaska. Can anyone really believe that this is the way God wants us to honour His holy day? The world would think we were crazy!
Therefore, I cannot escape the conclusion that the promised Sabbath blessing is bestowed on the basis of our willingness to obey and our sincerity of purpose. Hence, I believe that we need to follow the principles of Romans 13, going along with the government as long as they are not asking us to do anything wrong. In a location roughly halfway around the world from the cradle of civilization, could anyone seriously suggest that there are any moral implications (of right and wrong) involved in the decision of whether to consider one’s country to be in the Far West verses the Far East? I think not.
The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma
So, what has actually happened in Samoa, anyway? Following Thursday, December 29, 2011, the independent state of Samoa skipped Friday the 30th and moved directly into Saturday, December 31. The result is that, in this location, what would have been called Saturday, had the change not been enacted, will now be called Sunday. The Samoan government has cited a number of economic and logistical reasons for making the change, but it seems to have thrown the local Sabbath keepers into confusion.
The Seventh-day Adventist church in most of Independent Samoa is administered by the Samoa Mission. However, the Samatau S.D.A. church is not under the Mission’s administration. The Mission administration, after considering the matter, had decided to begin observing Sunday (from sunset to sunset, of course) as the Sabbath. Their stated purpose was to continue observing every seventh day as the Sabbath, regardless of what the general public might call it.2 According to one news article, Samoan S.D.A. ministers were brought in from other countries. These visiting ministers made a presentation, advising the Samoa Mission administration against the decision which they had made – but to no avail. The local leaders were well-intentioned, no doubt, but they could not be persuaded to change their purpose.
The leadership of the Samatau S.D.A. church has decided to continue observing Saturday as the Sabbath, thus achieving unity in their ranks. Within the Samoa Mission, on the other hand, there are many families and individuals who cannot conscientiously go along with the decision of the church leadership to observe what is now Sunday. Thus, confusion has been the result.
It has been urged by some that there may be cultural issues involved, of which we may be unaware. It has been said that this problem needs to be sorted out locally. I can certainly agree that a local solution would be ideal, and I share the hope that this will be achieved over time. Meanwhile, can we leave our Samoan brothers and sisters, who find that they cannot go along with the decision of their church leaders, to struggle along as best they can without any indication of support from the rest of us in the world church?
I hope and pray that they will find this article here, and that they will know that there are others who understand their plight.
No related posts.
This seems that it is serious dilemma in our church. Some thought the answer is simple. Some thought that it should not be simplified. If music genre and bible versions already divided many of Adventist churches, how much more this would be.
I think issues here are
1. Identity of Samoan church with the community in terms of the day of worship
2. extent of the influence of governments shifting the days especially those that are in the IDL in our sabbath keeping
3. Adventist Pioneers sabbath day legacy when they started the church in Samoa
4. Historical changes in the IDL in that region
5. Continuity of the 7-day cycle and whether God endowed holiness on the physical minutes of the sabbath day based on the original sabbath cycle on eden or it is endowed based on the human knowledge of time.
(i.e. we keep the sabbath not at the same time around the world, but when God rested and blessed that first sabbath during the first Friday sunset in eden, most likely opposite region of earth where the Samoa is still in early morning of Friday)
6. Technicalities regarding division of day in IDL (GMT, original location of Eden)
7. Validity/Acceptability of human sincerity when detailed explanation in the Scriptures are not explicitly stated
in this kind of modern issue
8. The authority of the local conference/union in their territory and the extent power of the worldwide body of believers to define rules for local members
There are many other issues but i think these ones are among prominent.Though its much convenient to stay neutral in this issue, it seems that there is no way one can compromise or be neutral in this kind of issue.
Some questions are needed arise in my mind when I heard this story:
1. Is it possible that the church (local, conference or world church) may decide (whatever decision it is)about this issue today and later found out that what they have made a mistake in that decision and later change it? (Our church leadership and official postions even those that are proclaimed by the highest levels are not infallible, as we can see from our history).
2. If the church leaders or individual are not infallible, must they be obeyed based on the divine Providence that appoint them in that position so that the unity and credibility of our church can be preserved? Or must we respect the freedom of conscience and risk a major division in our church in this issue? (Remember, if we are not careful to have a clearcut explanation in the official decision, opponents of our church can capitalize this issue as an example to prove our inconsistency regarding what we believe)
3. What could be the advised from out late messenger/prophet Ellen G. White had she had been alive she been alive during these days? (Though often times she delivered messages that is cuts our conscience which most of us do not like, how would be well if someone like her can say to us “Thus saith the Lord to the believers in Samoa and to the Adventist church as a whole…)
4. What if this scenario happened not only in Samoa but in the whole world when an international government association like UN or G20 decide to shift the day of the whole world based scientific fact (which obviously would be a fabrication of “scientific data”) or some economic reason? How would we stand?
5. Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my sabbath with a clear consience?
I admit that I do not know now what should be the correct position of our church in this issue. But what I believe is that God has the corrects answer for these problems and because He love us so much to the extent that He gave his life for us, he would not desire to leave us divided and confuse in this serious issue, especially if all we want is to follow His will. He may just want to show us that despite our century and a half long knowledge regarding the doctrine of Sabbath, we still have many things to learn and still needed to seek diligently again our Scriptures just like our pioneers before us. May God bless our church with the knowledge of God and presence of His spirit.
Dear Laodi,
Thank you for your valuable contribution to this discussion. Much has been said here already, in regard to your 8 points. By way of review, and in the interest of brevity, I’ll just touch on them.
1. On the need to identify with the community, frankly, this issue is huge in the view of a number of commentators.
2. Any government influence over our Sabbath keeping seems to be incidental in this case. The very worst possibility (according to the “official” opinion) would be our observing the 6th day as the Sabbath. Even then, that would not be the false papal Sabbath (i.e. Sunday) against which we must be on guard.
3. I can just imagine our pioneers rolling over in their metaphorical graves, to think that any effort to honour them should lead our people into “Sunday” observance now.
4. A focus on the historical changes in Samoa seems to lead only to confusion, with some saying that the Samoans must now observe “Sunday,” while most (unintentionally) imply that American Samoans should have been observing “Friday” ever since 1892. It appears the only way out of this confusion is to look beyond the history of Samoa and to develop a global perspective.
5, 6. If God has indeed endowed holiness on the physical minutes, we seem to lack any real basis for deciding just what minutes these might be, roughly halfway around the world from Eden. And it seems it may be just as well, as the implementation of our own technically correct “Sabbath-keeping Dateline” could only lead to some highly impractical results, including “Sunday” and/or “Friday” observance in various locations. The only way out of this problem appears to be acceptance of the International Dateline, even if it means adjusting to any changes.
7. Are we asking the right question? Rather than ask whether God will accept our sincerity, perhaps we should be asking how we can honour His name before the world. Even if the Scriptures offer no detailed explanations of Sabbath keeping on a round world, we still have the words of Christ that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” Shouldn’t this settle the matter?
8. It appears that those who differ with the mission leadership on this issue are motivated by deep personal convictions, seemingly supported by the facts.
I like your 5 questions.
1) Many are praying for just such a change.
2) As I see it, we Adventists have always given freedom of conscience the highest priority. I guess we just never thought that it would come to this.
3) The inspired counsel of Ellen White (as I see it) was always of a practical nature. So, I think that we may safely assume that she would be against any impractical solutions.
4) Clearly, having the whole world’s day shifted would be a very different matter from what we are facing now. For our Samoan brothers and sisters, accepting the present change only means observing the Sabbath along with our New Zealand believers, in a cycle unbroken since creation, just as they have been doing heretofore with our believers in Hawaii and in American Samoa.
5) “Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when the worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my Sabbath with a clear conscience?”
Now, here’s a good question! Does anyone have an answer?
Thanks to all of you folks of the Seventh-day Adventist People,
I truly value all of the above posts as an excellent example of a dialog with a focus upon the truth as reflected by the Ten Commandments of the Creator… That is, as represented also by the two cherubs on the throne of the Ark of the Covenant. Remember also Jesus’ words, along that same line, per Matthew 18:20!
Please remember also that asking questions for the purpose of finding God’s answers is that which alone can bring us the blessings intended for each and all by our Creator! Contrariwise, questioning even the possibility of finding an ultimate answer is the one certain way of retaining all of our blindness, all of our errors, and all of their specific, and undesirable, consequences…
To my mind, there are some very vital fundamentals still missing within the above dialog… No, I do not purport to have all the answers. No way! But perhaps a tiny ray, or two, from our loving Creator may find its way unto one or two, or more among us, by means of these frail words of mine?…
God asked Moses to build Him a Tabernacle that could be moved from place to place. The Most Holy portion of that Tabernacle was to represent the throne of God Himself. That was the reference point! Over and above all, and regarding more things than one. However, I am convinced that the Tabernacle was to be forever a prime reference point for all things pertaining to God’s own reckoning of time upon this planet Earth. Without such a localized reference point there can be no sensible unity re the beginning of any lunar month reckoning. Without such a reference there can be no unity re the IDL… Or so I see it. Unfortunately, there is no definite and final proof available to most anyone among us, re the exact whereabouts of the Ark of the Covenant. Personally I may find reason for believing that it is located in Axum, Eritrea, as suggested per the evidence brought forth in Graham Hancock’s book The Sign and the Seal, but there are a host of other authors suggesting other locations for it at other places most everywhere around our planet, let alone Jerusalem… I believe, as God’s People, we should unite in seeking and asking God to reveal to us whatever it be His will to reveal along this line. Yes, even the true whereabouts of the Ark of the Covenant itself…
Re the possible whereabouts of the Garden of Eden: Please remember that there is no way of knowing how far, or in which direction, the ark of Noah, traveled during the year of the Flood! The ark itself can be for us the only reference provided for us by God re His own reckoning of time for that period. But the exact resting place for the ark of Noah is not exactly proven, nor do we know as yet, its true longitudinal relationship to either Jerusalem or to the Ark of the Covenant…
Yet, I do not believe we have a reason for panic or confusion re issues such as the above, re issues pertaining to the Sabbath of the Lord! Remember Revelation 14:12!
I have found, by my own insistent Bible studies upon this topic, that, more that anything else, the particulars of the Tabernacle are a representation of the Family unit as created in the very image of God. Consider, for instance, the covenant between Man and Wife vs. the covenant between God and His own People, as represented most particularly by the two cherubs on the throne of God!
The one and only hierarchy ever promoted by the Creator Himself from the very beginning is that Family unit that our Creator created into the image of the Family of God. Remember, even after the fall into sin, the woman was authorized, even encouraged and commanded, to place her “desire…” upon her very own husband! I am convinced that that implies that the husband, and none other, is to serve as the chief reference point for the remainder of his very own family.
How could that be? Well, consider the importance of that living dialog between two cherubs! To me, the answer is self evident. In God’s eyes the family unit is nothing less than His chief treasure, the apple of His eye, the crown of His creation. It is not His will for any of our families to fall apart, even in spite of sin, even in spite of all our blindness and misguided thoughts, teachings, and actions! And that must pertain also to a question such as sabbath keeping in Samoa vs whichever IDL is being recognized or promoted re any particular location… Indeed, in a most important sense, the basis of each our family unit, “male and female created he them…,” is the throne of God and the Most Holy. It follows that it must be up to each Husband and Wife – in dialog and with a focus upon the Law of God – to determine for themselves, and for each their own family, how to handle that which pertain to that sacred dominion which belong to them and to none other, their own family.
It follows that we must all learn to respect one another, even in spite of all our differences of opinion! If one family chooses to submit themselves to another power, to another god than their Creator alone… Well, so be it! From the very beginning God, our Creator, has chosen to stand behind each our covenant that we may choose for ourselves, even when such a covenant is contrary to His own instructions and guidance for us, and even when it brings us to our own demise… Cf. Genesis 2:16-17!
Yes, covenants, and our obedience to such covenants, seem to be a foremost priority of our loving God and Creator! Please, cf. the 7th Commandment!
Let’s make a point out of not trespassing, either as a church or as a society, upon the sacred boundaries being defined by each our family unit… Or isn’t it true that the nucleus of every cell in each our body is carrying the specific imprint of our Maker – and the specific imprint of the two that were created into the image of the Family of God? That is, the sign and the seal of God Himself… Remember Uzzah! 2 Sam 6:7.
Think about it! Selah!
Thanks to all of you folks of the Seventh-day Adventist People,
I truly value all of the above posts as an excellent example of a dialog with a focus upon the truth as reflected by the Ten Commandments of the Creator… That is, as represented also by the two cherubs on the throne of the Ark of the Covenant. Remember also Jesus’ words, along that same line, per Matthew 18:20!
Please remember also that asking questions for the purpose of finding God’s answers is that which alone can bring us the blessings intended for each and all by our Creator! Contrariwise, questioning even the possibility of finding an ultimate answer is the one certain way of retaining all of our blindness, all of our errors, and all of their specific, and undesirable, consequences…
To my mind, there are some very vital fundamentals still missing within the above dialog… No, I do not purport to have all the answers. No way! But perhaps a tiny ray, or two, from our loving Creator may find its way unto one or two, or more among us, by means of these frail words of mine?…
God asked Moses to build Him a Tabernacle that could be moved from place to place. The Most Holy portion of that Tabernacle was to represent the throne of God Himself. That was the reference point! Over and above all, and regarding more things than one. However, I am convinced that the Tabernacle was to be forever a prime reference point for all things pertaining to God’s own reckoning of time upon this planet Earth. Without such a localized reference point there can be no sensible unity re the beginning of any lunar month reckoning. And without such a reference there can be no unity re the IDL… Or so I see it. Unfortunately, there is no definite and final proof available to most anyone among us, re the exact whereabouts of the Ark of the Covenant. Personally I may find reason for believing that it is located in Axum, Eritrea, as suggested per the evidence brought forth in Graham Hancock’s book The Sign and the Seal, but there are a host of other authors suggesting other locations for it at other places most everywhere around our planet, let alone Jerusalem…
I believe, as God’s People, we should unite in seeking and asking God to reveal to us whatever it be His will to reveal along these lines. Yes, even the true whereabouts of the Ark of the Covenant itself…
Re the possible whereabouts of the Garden of Eden: Please remember that there is no way of knowing how far, or in which direction, the ark of Noah traveled during the year of the Flood! The ark itself can be for us the only reference provided for us by God re His own reckoning of time for that period. But the exact resting place of the ark of Noah is not exactly proven, nor do we know as yet, its true longitudinal relationship to either Jerusalem or to the Ark of the Covenant…
Yet, I do not believe we have a reason for panic or confusion re issues such as the above, re issues pertaining to the Sabbath of the Lord! Remember Revelation 14:12!
It follows that we must all learn to respect one another, even in spite of all our differences of opinion! If one family chooses to submit to another power, to another god than their Creator alone… Well, so be it! Cf. the 1st Commandment! From the very beginning God, our Creator, has chosen to stand behind each our covenant that we may choose for ourselves, even when such a covenant is contrary to His own instructions and guidance for us, and even when it brings us to our own demise… Cf. Genesis 2:16-17!
Yes, covenants, and our obedience to such covenants, seem to be a foremost priority of our loving God and Creator! Please, cf. the 7th Commandment! And most definitely it is of great importance for us to live up to the promises and commitments that we make in life, most especially those that do indeed have the blessings of God!
Re making church decisions re Sabbath worship: Please, let’s make a point out of not trespassing, either as a church or as a society, upon the sacred boundaries being defined by each our family unit… Let’s be very careful not to reiterate the impossible situations created by the idiotic rules accumulated over the centuries by various religious and other powers upon this planet!
When it comes to making rules, or blue laws, based upon each our own species of conviction or belief, e.g. Sunday laws, that may be used for enforcing upon others things that may be contrary to religious freedom… Please remember the importance of recognizing and of respecting the immunity of each and every family unit! Or isn’t it true that the nucleus of every cell in each our body is carrying the specific imprint of our Maker – and the specific imprint of the two that were created into the image of the Family of God? That is, the sign and the seal of God Himself… Remember Uzzah! 2 Sam 6:7.
Think about it! Selah!
(Moderator, please add brevity to your rules. The comments are too long.)
LEAP YEAR! United States and others observe leap year every 4 years. One whole day is added to the end of February every 4 years. Are United States citizens in violation of the Sabbath?
Unfortunately, this has been made too difficult. Any country recognizing the Gregorian calendar should observe Saturday, the 7th day, as Sabbath.
I’m sorry [edited] but your leap year theory doesn’t hold water because you don’t have double days or skip a day. The weekly cycle stays intact and only the number of the day changes just like it does for all months whether they have 28, 29, 30 or 31 days. It doesn’t matter what the number is you still have 7 day weeks.
I am hoping to get a very clean,clear view on the Samoan Sabbath Sunday situation.
I do not understand the fact regarding the time factor. Can some one make it clear so I’ll be able to do same to others that are now in my position.
Dear Junior,
Yes, my article “The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma” is available here, with some 100 comments following, some of them mine.
In a nutshell, I’d have to say that there doesn’t seem to be any practical value in looking for some kind of “technically correct” solution that doesn’t make any common sense. The International Dateline is necessarily man-made and arbitrary anyway.
Why do we exist as a denomination? Are we here to live for ourselves, or to meet the arcane requirements that some might try to attach to God’s law? No, I believe that we must observe whatever the general public regards as the 7th day of the week, within reason, for the sake of our public testimony, if for nothing else. “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”
This would mean that our Samoan brothers and sisters need to make the adjustment, accepting a one-time 6-day week, and (yes) breaking their own local weekly cycle.
I believe that this should be no problem for them, because the global weekly cycle will remain unbroken, as it has since creation. They just need to begin celebrating the Sabbath day with their New Zealand brothers and sisters, instead of being on the same day as American Samoa, as heretofore.
I hope that this can be of help to you.
R. G. White,
Could you please refer me to the article that said “the Samatau S.D.A. church is not under the Mission’s administration?”
The Samatau church is under the Samoa Mission administration, but members of the Samatau church are led by Elders Puni Raea & Sioeli Puni. The second church group to support the Samatau stance are members from the Immanuel church, now worshiping on Mt. Vaea. They are well supported by ministers & church members in N. Z., Australia, the U. S. A. & other parts of the globe, who are now worshiping on Saturday (the Seventh Day of the week).
[edited by moderator]
Dear Jenkins,
I have reviewed the article in question, and it did not actually state that the Samatau church is not under the Mission administration. I had thought that this was implied in the article, so it was my misunderstanding. Thank you for clearing this up. I apologise for the error, and I shall try to be more careful next time.
Thank you for the valuable information. May God bless you in your endeavours.
RG White
No worries its just a typing error.
You are doing a great ministry.
I could explain it, but I think it’s far less important than it is made out to be. I have heard people labour under many misconceptions–but this is usually as a result of many things; not the least of which is a lack of basic knowledge about things like time zones, the international dateline, the definition of a day etc.
Basically, Samoa has jumped over the international dateline from the “American” side to the “Australian” side in order to align with Australia–their biggest trading partner.
Jesus kept the Sabbath in Israel on the correct day. On the approximate opposite side of earth at the dateline (imagine it was there then), those on the west side would have started sabbath a few hours before Jesus, while those on the east side, a few hours after. To cross the dateline requires a one off 6 or 8 day week depending on the direction travelled. Samoans who now keep sunday as the 7th day, if they could afford the airfare, could board a plane and travel east around the world and would arrive home and find Saturday as the 7th day. Please accept the one off 6 day week and keep the day before the sunday keepers.
{This comment has been moved from The Origin of the Sabbath and the 7-Day Week]
Thank you Sean Pitmen for the insight of this posting. I was wondering within the context of this subject of the 7day cycle, how the Samoa change of time zone should be considered. The Samoan government for economic reasons, aligned the Samoa timezone to regional countries, Australia, New Zealand etc. The change was made on the Friday that resulted with the Saturday being eliminated and the new 7day cycle starting on the Sunday. Some 7th Day Adventists chose to remain with the old 7day cycle, thus now worshiping on Sunday, along with all other Sunday worshipping religions and others aligned their week with the (new) time zone change and remained worshiping on the Saturday.
I travel frequently for my work and I am subject to time zone changes and wherever I am, I worship on the Sabbath according to the timezone I am in. In some instances, if I travel from the Southern to Northern Hemisphere, I am blessed to enjoy 2 Sabbaths back to back in the same week and if I am traveling from the Northern to the Southern Hemisphere, I will miss a Sabbath, leaving my destination on Friday and arriving on at the next point, on Sunday.
It is a dilemma for the Samoan 7th Day Adventists brethren, in that it has split the Church into two groups and in the case of those that have chosen to remain on the old 7day cycle and now worshipping on Sunday, the point of differentiation is now lost.
I would be grateful for your insight and point of view on this (unfortunate) situation that has impacted the Samoan 7th Day Adventist community.
Thank you, Ian Letele
Talofa Ian & All
Ian’s dad the late High Chief Leiataua Letele was an elder & great man of God in NZ & Australia who served together with my Dad ,his younger brothers Dave & Lei are true warriors for God at our local church Calvary Community church.
You are right our point of difference is now lost & our fathers who came from Sunday church families & have to endure so much becos of accepting the Seventh Day Sabbath witness has come to nothing as the church is now keeping Sunday.
I think that the way we have traditionally presented and sought to preserve the Sabbath has a lot to do with this current dilemma we face.
Interestingly enough, this is apparently the second time Samoa has jumped the Dateline, and thus, strictly speaking, they are back where they were when the dateline was originally set.
As long as the Sabbath’s purpose remains overwhelmingly a “test of obedience”, our relationship towards it will be marred. I think we have badly erred in this regard–and for this reason alone I am wary of another (well-meaning) article on this site which seeks to talk about “circaseptian” rhythms.
I think all this is badly misguided.
On a related note, I wonder indeed if we can move to Samoa when the Sunday Laws come–and keep Sabbath on Sunday? (Not trying to make a point, it was just an interesting observation.)
H’mm… Andrew, if the devil and his followers can’t tell the difference between a Sunday keeper and a Sabbath keeper, maybe Jesus won’t make a difference either?
After all, Jesus said, “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.” Matt. 10:32 NKJV
Food for thought, don’t you think?
Jerusalem’s longitude is 35 degrees east. If the date line were 180 degrees west of Jerusalem it would be at longitude 145 west. Samoa is at longitude 173 west so the recent change puts it on the correct side of the “Jerusalem date line”. The same argument holds if you use the Garden of Eden at longitude 45 east and a date line at 135 west. In any case it is better to worship on what the locals call Saturday.
Some readers seem to fear that the government (whichever one that might be) is going to change Sunday for the Sabbath. It is my understanding from past blue laws and other legislation dealing with Sunday that the intent of those laws was to stop non-religious activity on Sunday. Eventually I can see it extending to prohibiting worship on the Sabbath but that has not been the obvious intent up to this point in time.
As Seventh-day Adventists we do have a most valuable legacy that we inherited from our pioneers…
Our one creed – and none other – is this: “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” John 17:17
When that is our conviction, then we will soon realize that whenever we have an unsolved problem of any consequence, then we should know that “We Do Not Go Deep Enough…” {1 SM 415.3 – 416.2} That is, not deep enough in our individual and collective studies of the Holy Scriptures.
As the very sensible saying goes: “When everything else fails, read the instructions…”
Yes, I know, the word IDL etc. is not found within the Bible as such, now is it?
Yet, isn’t it true that God’s throne is very exactly defined in the Scriptures? Or isn’t it true that the Ark of the Covenant is the throne of God? Cf. Rev 7:15 & Ex 25:22? And isn’t God’s throne to be for ever our chief reference?!!!
God’s instructions to Moses re the Sanctuary and re all of its contents, that is, including also the Ark of the Covenant were clear: Those items were not to be fixed to one geographical location once and for all!
God Himself is to remain the One God at the head of His People. As Jesus said: “I Am, the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6.
Clearly we do not know how far, or in what direction, the ark of Noah traveled during the year of the Flood. It could have circumnavigated our planet… But it does not matter… We are not left without one certain reference of God’s own time: The ark of Noah is provided for us in the Holy Scriptures as our one and only reference of time and place throughout that gigantic world wide natural catastrophe.
The same pertain to the events tied to the Exodus and throughout the forty years in the desert before entering the Promised land. Our reference remains the one throne of God – a movable item not fixed to one geographical point.
Yet, there is one most important question: “Where is the Ark or the Covenant? Where is it located presently?”
The General Conference Research Committee of 1939 did a very valuable study from which we may retain many a valuable lesson. One thing that it taught me, was that without one certain location on Earth being used for a time reference, there can be no sensible lunar month reckoning, that is, such as constitutes Scriptural reckoning of time. The New Moon first becomes visible anywhere around the periphery of our planet, and in consequence of that fact, it is easy to see that the first visibility of the New Moon must be tied to one certain locality or there will soon be total confusion on a world wide scale. The 1939 committee made it clear also that a certain field near Jerusalem was being used for determining the stage of ripening of the barley and thus of Month #1 of the Scripture year.
Thus it seems clear to me that the Ark of the Covenant was designed for being a chief reference for our Creator’s own calendar, and for His reckoning of time.
I believe it is high time for God’s People to begin praying for God to reveal the true whereabouts of His chief reference. That is, so far as the Creator's own reckoning of time upon this Earth is concerned…
Many are taking for granted that the the Ark of the Covenant is still located somewhere close to Jerusalem. Yet, the Jews in Ethiopia are claiming that it is being held at Axum in Eritrea and that it has been in Ethiopia for the last 1,600 years… (Cf. Graham Hancock’s book The Sign and the Seal. Besides that there are numerous claims from all around the Earth that the Ark of the Covenant has been moved to any number of other places…) To me the best available current evidence point to Axum, but Jerusalem is a close runner up. No matter, the two of them are located on much the same longitude.
Thus, to me, the recent move of the Samoan IDL is a move that finds support from the one Scripture reference re the reckoning of God’s time and calendar. Thus the pre-1892 and the post-2011 IDL find the best Scriptural support currently available. To me, that constitutes ‘the present truth’ re this one particular.
Yet, I find it of utmost importance to emphasize also that neither am I, nor anyone else among men or nations, authorized to trespass upon the supreme authority of anyone else's family unit. For what authority, besides God Himself, is ever designed or created by God, but the authority of the family unit. How else would ever any family have any reasonable chance to stay together? Or, isn’t it true that the basis of the family is the “male and female” created in the very image of our Creator? Cf. Gen 1:27 and Gen 3:16!
Thus, I believe the final decision must always be left to each family to make for themselves. We are to honor and respect one another in spite of our differences.
Indeed, how could we ever have a true and fruitful dialog, such as this one, leading us ever closer to the ultimate truth re the IDL of Samoa without being allowed the freedom to openly share each our various points of view?!!!
Think about it! Selah!
The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma
Father: “Son, we’re going to the Johnson’s house.”
Jonathan: “What? Why aren’t we going to church?”
Father: “We are, Jonathan. We’re going to church at the Johnson’s today.”1
Jonathan: “But why, Dad? Why aren’t we going to the same church where we’ve always gone?”
Father: “It’s closed today, Son. They will be having services there tomorrow, on Sunday.”
Could such a scenario actually happen to Adventist believers? Believe it or not, this is the very situation now confronting many Seventh-day Adventist believers in the independent state of Samoa. How did such a state of affairs ever come about? Well, it all revolves around an imaginary boundary commonly known as the “international date line.”
What is the international date line, and how does it affect Sabbath keepers?
Of course, most people are aware that there is such a line, roughly following 180 degrees longitude, where on one side of the line it is considered to be one day, while on the other side it is already the next day. When you really stop and think about it, you realize that some such line, though necessarily arbitrary in nature, must exist somewhere on the globe if there is to be any kind of uniformity in determining what day it is at any given time and place.
How is the “international date line” determined? Is there some kind of international treaty in place?
Interestingly enough, there is not. The “line,” as we call it, is the result of the collective decisions of the various governmental jurisdictions of the world. There is sufficient agreement among these various entities to form a somewhat convoluted line, but which can nevertheless be drawn on a map.
What theory or convention is being followed, in order to achieve this degree of uniformity?
Well, I find that it is commonly believed, among both the religious and the secular, that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. That’s also where the Garden of Eden is considered to have been. So, it would stand to reason that any date line should be somewhere close to halfway around the world from that location. However, the actual international convention for keeping time is a mean time based at an observatory in Greenwich, England. Apparently, this came about just because the English were the first to exert a sufficient global influence. This is what defines 180 degrees longitude, a line which the various governments may or may not follow exactly.
Sabbath keepers have generally not questioned such decisions made by government. However, things can get interesting when one government or another decides to make a change. One could say that the people of any given country used to consider themselves to be in the Far West of the world, but now they will be in the Far East – or vice versa. Independent Samoa (as opposed to American Samoa) is not the first country to make such a change. Many such revisions have been made, from time to time, among the islands of the Pacific. At one time, the date line ran to the east of Alaska. Again, it once ran to the west of the Philippines. In 1892, Samoa made a change. In 2011, the government of independent Samoa decided to reverse the previous move.
All of this begs the question: The Sabbath is holy time. Does any government really have the right to make a decision affecting the observance of God’s holy Sabbath day? We read the following in Genesis 2:3 (NKJV):
What is the meaning of the Sabbath blessing of Genesis 2:3?
Here, one is faced with a deeper question. In blessing the seventh day, was God infusing the day itself with a special quality, or was He rather promising to bless those who would observe the seventh day in obedience and sincerity of purpose? The former seems to be an appealing concept to many, but just how is one to picture this in one’s mind? Did this blessing commence in Mesopotamia, spreading at a uniform rate of speed around the circumference of the earth, until it bumped into itself at a line exactly equidistant from its origin? If this were the case, it seems to me that the Sabbath blessing could only be realized by celebrating the day according to an exact comparison of the distance from where one is to the longitude of where the Garden of Eden was, by going either eastward or westward.
What would be the implications of such an approach? Well, for one thing, all generally accepted ideas of what day it is, at any given location, would have to be ignored. From sunset to sunset, one would necessarily end up observing the Sabbath on what the general public is calling Friday, or Saturday, or Sunday! In addition, we Sabbath keepers would have to draw our own Sabbath-keeping “date line,” running straight north and south, and dividing continents, countries, states or provinces, and perhaps even local communities. I write from British Columbia, and I realize that this line would necessarily run somewhere between here and Alaska. Can anyone really believe that this is the way God wants us to honour His holy day? The world would think we were crazy!
Therefore, I cannot escape the conclusion that the promised Sabbath blessing is bestowed on the basis of our willingness to obey and our sincerity of purpose. Hence, I believe that we need to follow the principles of Romans 13, going along with the government as long as they are not asking us to do anything wrong. In a location roughly halfway around the world from the cradle of civilization, could anyone seriously suggest that there are any moral implications (of right and wrong) involved in the decision of whether to consider one’s country to be in the Far West verses the Far East? I think not.
The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma
So, what has actually happened in Samoa, anyway? Following Thursday, December 29, 2011, the independent state of Samoa skipped Friday the 30th and moved directly into Saturday, December 31. The result is that, in this location, what would have been called Saturday, had the change not been enacted, will now be called Sunday. The Samoan government has cited a number of economic and logistical reasons for making the change, but it seems to have thrown the local Sabbath keepers into confusion.
The Seventh-day Adventist church in most of Independent Samoa is administered by the Samoa Mission. However, the Samatau S.D.A. church is not under the Mission’s administration. The Mission administration, after considering the matter, had decided to begin observing Sunday (from sunset to sunset, of course) as the Sabbath. Their stated purpose was to continue observing every seventh day as the Sabbath, regardless of what the general public might call it.2 According to one news article, Samoan S.D.A. ministers were brought in from other countries. These visiting ministers made a presentation, advising the Samoa Mission administration against the decision which they had made – but to no avail. The local leaders were well-intentioned, no doubt, but they could not be persuaded to change their purpose.
The leadership of the Samatau S.D.A. church has decided to continue observing Saturday as the Sabbath, thus achieving unity in their ranks. Within the Samoa Mission, on the other hand, there are many families and individuals who cannot conscientiously go along with the decision of the church leadership to observe what is now Sunday. Thus, confusion has been the result.
It has been urged by some that there may be cultural issues involved, of which we may be unaware. It has been said that this problem needs to be sorted out locally. I can certainly agree that a local solution would be ideal, and I share the hope that this will be achieved over time. Meanwhile, can we leave our Samoan brothers and sisters, who find that they cannot go along with the decision of their church leaders, to struggle along as best they can without any indication of support from the rest of us in the world church?
I hope and pray that they will find this article here, and that they will know that there are others who understand their plight.
No related posts.
About R. G. White
R. G. White was born in British Columbia, and presently writes from the city of Abbotsford. He attended Fraser Valley Adventist Academy from 1971 to 1975, and graduated from Walla Walla University in 1981. R. G. was called to the service of Jesus Christ in 1985 and is married to Holline C. White.123 Responses to The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma
This seems that it is serious dilemma in our church. Some thought the answer is simple. Some thought that it should not be simplified. If music genre and bible versions already divided many of Adventist churches, how much more this would be.
I think issues here are
1. Identity of Samoan church with the community in terms of the day of worship
2. extent of the influence of governments shifting the days especially those that are in the IDL in our sabbath keeping
3. Adventist Pioneers sabbath day legacy when they started the church in Samoa
4. Historical changes in the IDL in that region
5. Continuity of the 7-day cycle and whether God endowed holiness on the physical minutes of the sabbath day based on the original sabbath cycle on eden or it is endowed based on the human knowledge of time.
(i.e. we keep the sabbath not at the same time around the world, but when God rested and blessed that first sabbath during the first Friday sunset in eden, most likely opposite region of earth where the Samoa is still in early morning of Friday)
6. Technicalities regarding division of day in IDL (GMT, original location of Eden)
7. Validity/Acceptability of human sincerity when detailed explanation in the Scriptures are not explicitly stated
in this kind of modern issue
8. The authority of the local conference/union in their territory and the extent power of the worldwide body of believers to define rules for local members
There are many other issues but i think these ones are among prominent.Though its much convenient to stay neutral in this issue, it seems that there is no way one can compromise or be neutral in this kind of issue.
Some questions are needed arise in my mind when I heard this story:
1. Is it possible that the church (local, conference or world church) may decide (whatever decision it is)about this issue today and later found out that what they have made a mistake in that decision and later change it? (Our church leadership and official postions even those that are proclaimed by the highest levels are not infallible, as we can see from our history).
2. If the church leaders or individual are not infallible, must they be obeyed based on the divine Providence that appoint them in that position so that the unity and credibility of our church can be preserved? Or must we respect the freedom of conscience and risk a major division in our church in this issue? (Remember, if we are not careful to have a clearcut explanation in the official decision, opponents of our church can capitalize this issue as an example to prove our inconsistency regarding what we believe)
3. What could be the advised from out late messenger/prophet Ellen G. White had she had been alive she been alive during these days? (Though often times she delivered messages that is cuts our conscience which most of us do not like, how would be well if someone like her can say to us “Thus saith the Lord to the believers in Samoa and to the Adventist church as a whole…)
4. What if this scenario happened not only in Samoa but in the whole world when an international government association like UN or G20 decide to shift the day of the whole world based scientific fact (which obviously would be a fabrication of “scientific data”) or some economic reason? How would we stand?
5. Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my sabbath with a clear consience?
I admit that I do not know now what should be the correct position of our church in this issue. But what I believe is that God has the corrects answer for these problems and because He love us so much to the extent that He gave his life for us, he would not desire to leave us divided and confuse in this serious issue, especially if all we want is to follow His will. He may just want to show us that despite our century and a half long knowledge regarding the doctrine of Sabbath, we still have many things to learn and still needed to seek diligently again our Scriptures just like our pioneers before us. May God bless our church with the knowledge of God and presence of His spirit.
Dear Laodi,
Thank you for your valuable contribution to this discussion. Much has been said here already, in regard to your 8 points. By way of review, and in the interest of brevity, I’ll just touch on them.
1. On the need to identify with the community, frankly, this issue is huge in the view of a number of commentators.
2. Any government influence over our Sabbath keeping seems to be incidental in this case. The very worst possibility (according to the “official” opinion) would be our observing the 6th day as the Sabbath. Even then, that would not be the false papal Sabbath (i.e. Sunday) against which we must be on guard.
3. I can just imagine our pioneers rolling over in their metaphorical graves, to think that any effort to honour them should lead our people into “Sunday” observance now.
4. A focus on the historical changes in Samoa seems to lead only to confusion, with some saying that the Samoans must now observe “Sunday,” while most (unintentionally) imply that American Samoans should have been observing “Friday” ever since 1892. It appears the only way out of this confusion is to look beyond the history of Samoa and to develop a global perspective.
5, 6. If God has indeed endowed holiness on the physical minutes, we seem to lack any real basis for deciding just what minutes these might be, roughly halfway around the world from Eden. And it seems it may be just as well, as the implementation of our own technically correct “Sabbath-keeping Dateline” could only lead to some highly impractical results, including “Sunday” and/or “Friday” observance in various locations. The only way out of this problem appears to be acceptance of the International Dateline, even if it means adjusting to any changes.
7. Are we asking the right question? Rather than ask whether God will accept our sincerity, perhaps we should be asking how we can honour His name before the world. Even if the Scriptures offer no detailed explanations of Sabbath keeping on a round world, we still have the words of Christ that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” Shouldn’t this settle the matter?
8. It appears that those who differ with the mission leadership on this issue are motivated by deep personal convictions, seemingly supported by the facts.
I like your 5 questions.
1) Many are praying for just such a change.
2) As I see it, we Adventists have always given freedom of conscience the highest priority. I guess we just never thought that it would come to this.
3) The inspired counsel of Ellen White (as I see it) was always of a practical nature. So, I think that we may safely assume that she would be against any impractical solutions.
4) Clearly, having the whole world’s day shifted would be a very different matter from what we are facing now. For our Samoan brothers and sisters, accepting the present change only means observing the Sabbath along with our New Zealand believers, in a cycle unbroken since creation, just as they have been doing heretofore with our believers in Hawaii and in American Samoa.
5) “Can I flee to Samoa to avoid persecution when the worldwide Sunday law happens and at the same time keep my Sabbath with a clear conscience?”
Now, here’s a good question! Does anyone have an answer?
(Moderator, please add brevity to your rules. The comments are too long.)
LEAP YEAR! United States and others observe leap year every 4 years. One whole day is added to the end of February every 4 years. Are United States citizens in violation of the Sabbath?
Unfortunately, this has been made too difficult. Any country recognizing the Gregorian calendar should observe Saturday, the 7th day, as Sabbath.
I’m sorry [edited] but your leap year theory doesn’t hold water because you don’t have double days or skip a day. The weekly cycle stays intact and only the number of the day changes just like it does for all months whether they have 28, 29, 30 or 31 days. It doesn’t matter what the number is you still have 7 day weeks.
I am hoping to get a very clean,clear view on the Samoan Sabbath Sunday situation.
I do not understand the fact regarding the time factor. Can some one make it clear so I’ll be able to do same to others that are now in my position.
Dear Junior,
Yes, my article “The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma” is available here, with some 100 comments following, some of them mine.
In a nutshell, I’d have to say that there doesn’t seem to be any practical value in looking for some kind of “technically correct” solution that doesn’t make any common sense. The International Dateline is necessarily man-made and arbitrary anyway.
Why do we exist as a denomination? Are we here to live for ourselves, or to meet the arcane requirements that some might try to attach to God’s law? No, I believe that we must observe whatever the general public regards as the 7th day of the week, within reason, for the sake of our public testimony, if for nothing else. “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”
This would mean that our Samoan brothers and sisters need to make the adjustment, accepting a one-time 6-day week, and (yes) breaking their own local weekly cycle.
I believe that this should be no problem for them, because the global weekly cycle will remain unbroken, as it has since creation. They just need to begin celebrating the Sabbath day with their New Zealand brothers and sisters, instead of being on the same day as American Samoa, as heretofore.
I hope that this can be of help to you.
R. G. White,
Could you please refer me to the article that said “the Samatau S.D.A. church is not under the Mission’s administration?”
The Samatau church is under the Samoa Mission administration, but members of the Samatau church are led by Elders Puni Raea & Sioeli Puni. The second church group to support the Samatau stance are members from the Immanuel church, now worshiping on Mt. Vaea. They are well supported by ministers & church members in N. Z., Australia, the U. S. A. & other parts of the globe, who are now worshiping on Saturday (the Seventh Day of the week).
[edited by moderator]
Dear Jenkins,
I have reviewed the article in question, and it did not actually state that the Samatau church is not under the Mission administration. I had thought that this was implied in the article, so it was my misunderstanding. Thank you for clearing this up. I apologise for the error, and I shall try to be more careful next time.
Thank you for the valuable information. May God bless you in your endeavours.
RG White
No worries its just a typing error.
You are doing a great ministry.
I could explain it, but I think it’s far less important than it is made out to be. I have heard people labour under many misconceptions–but this is usually as a result of many things; not the least of which is a lack of basic knowledge about things like time zones, the international dateline, the definition of a day etc.
Basically, Samoa has jumped over the international dateline from the “American” side to the “Australian” side in order to align with Australia–their biggest trading partner.
Jesus kept the Sabbath in Israel on the correct day. On the approximate opposite side of earth at the dateline (imagine it was there then), those on the west side would have started sabbath a few hours before Jesus, while those on the east side, a few hours after. To cross the dateline requires a one off 6 or 8 day week depending on the direction travelled. Samoans who now keep sunday as the 7th day, if they could afford the airfare, could board a plane and travel east around the world and would arrive home and find Saturday as the 7th day. Please accept the one off 6 day week and keep the day before the sunday keepers.
{This comment has been moved from The Origin of the Sabbath and the 7-Day Week]
Thank you Sean Pitmen for the insight of this posting. I was wondering within the context of this subject of the 7day cycle, how the Samoa change of time zone should be considered. The Samoan government for economic reasons, aligned the Samoa timezone to regional countries, Australia, New Zealand etc. The change was made on the Friday that resulted with the Saturday being eliminated and the new 7day cycle starting on the Sunday. Some 7th Day Adventists chose to remain with the old 7day cycle, thus now worshiping on Sunday, along with all other Sunday worshipping religions and others aligned their week with the (new) time zone change and remained worshiping on the Saturday.
I travel frequently for my work and I am subject to time zone changes and wherever I am, I worship on the Sabbath according to the timezone I am in. In some instances, if I travel from the Southern to Northern Hemisphere, I am blessed to enjoy 2 Sabbaths back to back in the same week and if I am traveling from the Northern to the Southern Hemisphere, I will miss a Sabbath, leaving my destination on Friday and arriving on at the next point, on Sunday.
It is a dilemma for the Samoan 7th Day Adventists brethren, in that it has split the Church into two groups and in the case of those that have chosen to remain on the old 7day cycle and now worshipping on Sunday, the point of differentiation is now lost.
I would be grateful for your insight and point of view on this (unfortunate) situation that has impacted the Samoan 7th Day Adventist community.
Thank you, Ian Letele
Talofa Ian & All
Ian’s dad the late High Chief Leiataua Letele was an elder & great man of God in NZ & Australia who served together with my Dad ,his younger brothers Dave & Lei are true warriors for God at our local church Calvary Community church.
You are right our point of difference is now lost & our fathers who came from Sunday church families & have to endure so much becos of accepting the Seventh Day Sabbath witness has come to nothing as the church is now keeping Sunday.
I think that the way we have traditionally presented and sought to preserve the Sabbath has a lot to do with this current dilemma we face.
Interestingly enough, this is apparently the second time Samoa has jumped the Dateline, and thus, strictly speaking, they are back where they were when the dateline was originally set.
As long as the Sabbath’s purpose remains overwhelmingly a “test of obedience”, our relationship towards it will be marred. I think we have badly erred in this regard–and for this reason alone I am wary of another (well-meaning) article on this site which seeks to talk about “circaseptian” rhythms.
I think all this is badly misguided.
On a related note, I wonder indeed if we can move to Samoa when the Sunday Laws come–and keep Sabbath on Sunday? (Not trying to make a point, it was just an interesting observation.)
H’mm… Andrew, if the devil and his followers can’t tell the difference between a Sunday keeper and a Sabbath keeper, maybe Jesus won’t make a difference either?
After all, Jesus said, “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.” Matt. 10:32 NKJV
Food for thought, don’t you think?
Jerusalem’s longitude is 35 degrees east. If the date line were 180 degrees west of Jerusalem it would be at longitude 145 west. Samoa is at longitude 173 west so the recent change puts it on the correct side of the “Jerusalem date line”. The same argument holds if you use the Garden of Eden at longitude 45 east and a date line at 135 west. In any case it is better to worship on what the locals call Saturday.
Some readers seem to fear that the government (whichever one that might be) is going to change Sunday for the Sabbath. It is my understanding from past blue laws and other legislation dealing with Sunday that the intent of those laws was to stop non-religious activity on Sunday. Eventually I can see it extending to prohibiting worship on the Sabbath but that has not been the obvious intent up to this point in time.
Thank you all for your valuable comments. Forgive me if I am being persistent on this as I am still confused.
Before the change in December 2011 the Samoan were observing Saturday as the 7th day according to the 7 day weekly cycle. After the change which eventually occured on Thursday 29th December midnight by skipping 30th Friday and jumped to 31st Saturday, would this be the 7th day as per the 7 day weekly cycle? May be I am being too rigid but this is where I need help. Is it correct to have a 6 day weekly cycle at the beginning in order to aligne with the change and then continue with the 7 day weekly cycle?
God bless!
Hi Helen.
I agree. No matter the name of the day, the seven day weekly cycle to be followed. God bless. So if it fell on a Sunday( name of the day) it shouldn’t matter, as like on our birthdays. That is why God had already shar to us in his word thousand years ago about it, as I have shared already, in the scriptures.
The Samatua church maintain their witness of following the seven day sabbath.
God bless.
The time line need serious prayers from all the children of God of all the Four corners of the world, can it be passed we take a week of prayer asking God to intervene and choose for us His day? I believe if we make comments while we are on our knees,our ever knowing God will show us the meaning of all this, trust Him dear brothers and sisters He has all the timeline powers.
Dear R.G. White,
How about considering the Ark of the Covenant our prime reference point, that is, re all such as pertain to God’s own reckoning of time?
You have been giving reference to the Garden of Eden numerous times in your above posts, yet, as you yourself have said, we do not know exactly where that place was located.
When you think about it, isn’t it true that the Flood totally obliterated the surface of our planet as it stood prior to the Flood? And, isn’t it true that the ark of Noah could have circumnavigated the Earth during that year of the Flood?
But that is not necessarily a problem, is it? Is God a stationary God? Or, is our Creator our Guide and Teacher? The One who is leading each and all among His People tenderly and lovingly and step by little step along the Way as each of us is ready and prepared to accept His leadership?
May I suggest that, per the definitions provided for us in the Holy Scriptures, the ark of Noah serves as our reference point for God’s reckoning of time for that era of the Flood?
Likewise, may I suggest that, per the definitions provided for us in the Holy Scriptures, the Ark of the Covenant, that is, the throne of God, serves as our reference point for God’s reckoning of time ever since the time of Moses? Cf. Rev 7:15 & Exodus 25:22
What do you think?
Thank you for the suggestion, Andy. Actually, I believe that your question has already been answered in previous comments. Dr. Glen Cozens has informed us that Jerusalem, where the Ark of the Covenant would seem to be, is 35 degrees to the east of Greenwich. As for the Garden of Eden, the Bible seems to indicate that it was located in the region of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. If this interpretation is accurate, that would put it at about 45 degrees east.
So, what would happen if we all agreed on our own “Sabbath keeping dateline” on the opposite side of the world from one of those two locations? The Samatau church (and others) would prevail in Samoa, which would arguably be a very good result. However, our Sabbath keepers in many other places would now have to begin observing what the public calls Friday, as the 7th-day Sabbath. These places would include all Pacific islands west of the IDL, such as American Samoa and Hawaii. Most or all of Alaska would be included in this, and possibly parts of the Yukon and British Columbia.
Our “Sabbath-keeping dateline” would very likely divide states and/or provinces, and possibly even local communities. In my view, we’d end up with a lot more confusion than we even have now.
I do not believe that it is pleasing to God for us to be so rigid and (dare I say it?) legalistic in an effort to be technically correct in our Sabbath observance. Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” Therefore, along with many others, I am firmly convinced that we can best maintain our public testimony for Jesus by observing, in any given location, the day recognised by the general public as the 7th day of the week. This means accepting the International Dateline wherever it is, and making the necessary adjustments for any changes in it.
Thank you R.G.,
I very much appreciate the value in your comments re the potential consequences of having one certain reference point anchored in the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Thank you!
I also very much appreciate the preexisting answers to my questions as brought to us through the prior comments of Dr. Glen Cozens. Thanks Glen!
This morning God opened my eyes to 2 Kings 23:21-23 beginning with the words “And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God…”
I perceive in those words a specific instance of a king serving as an instrument in the hands of God Himself. And the consequences, the blessings of God, were not long in coming.
In fact, come to think of it, isn’t it true also that in a very certain sense, the word ‘king’ is very much a title tied to that which is inherent in the concept of “holding title to…” or “being the owner of…”
My thoughts were led also to the words pronounced by the King of Nineveh as recorded in Jonah 3:6-9, which command of the king was issued in consequence of God’s warning message brought to the people of Nineveh by the prophet Jonah. Most especially I appreciate the words of that king as found in Jonah 3:8 “let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.” That is, the King of Nineveh made a point of reverting the responsibility back upon each one among the people. Or didn’t he?
I also very much value God’s own words per Jeremiah 27:6 “Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant…” Thus it is very clear to me that kings and manmade governments do, at times, serve as instruments in the hands of the Lord God, our Creator, Himself.
In my way of thinking the recent decision of the government of independent Samoa, re the IDL, is very much a decision in the nature of each of the above three kings.
In fact, in this particular I see also a reflection of that which is inherent in the words “the God of Isaac…” (cf. Gen 28:13; Ex 3:6, 15; Ex 4:5; Matt 22:32; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37; Acts 7:32.) As you know the name ‘Isaac’ means ‘laughter’ (cf. Gen 21:3, 6; Strong’s H6712.) You see, the name ‘Samoa,’ when written in Hebrew letters, may be perceived in terms of the word ‘Shem’ meaning “word, name, title [as in the owner of property,] authority…” (cf. Strong’s H8034-H8035,) plus the letter/word ‘aleph’ meaning, among other things, “one, family,” as in “God is One” or as in “the Family of God” (cf. Strong’s H502-H507.)
Thus, I perceive the name ‘Samoa’ in terms of meaning ‘a name belonging to the Family of God.’ Particularly, that is, in the context of the present situation of the recent change of the IDL . . .
Isn’t it wonderful to know how God has His hands in every little detail of things? Yes, even that God is giving us His sign, His signature if you will, by means of the name ‘Samoa,’ as evidence to us that He is in control of the present situation of His People in Samoa re this Sabbath question… God has humor, doesn’t He?
I for one, feel proud to be one among the Seventh-day Adventist people, who are so adamant in standing up for their convictions. That is, whether such a conviction leads a man of Samoa to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath beginning at sunset on Friday or else beginning at sunset on Saturday… That is, even when such convictions may, for the time being, be based upon a ‘present truth’ that may be flawed at its foundation.
Yes, we do need to continually, each one for himself as well as all of us together as a people, be praying for more light and for wisdom in how to best apply the present truth! We do need to learn to become more adamant about being that which we claim to be, a people truly studying and ever learning from the Holy Scriptures. Don’t we? Cf. also Hosea 4:6!
Dear Helen,
That’s all right. We realize that, for many who have never had any experience with the International Dateline, this is an unfamiliar and potentially confusing topic.
Yes, this is exactly what all of the facts, taken together, would seem to indicate. It is correct to have a one-time 6-day week in order to make the adjustment. As Toka has said, and others have indicated, it is like taking an imaginary trip eastward around the globe and arriving home, only to find that the 7th day is still Saturday.
Una, this is what the Samatau church has essentially done. Along with certain others, they have made the adjustment, and are maintaining their public testimony for the Sabbath by joining their New Zealand brothers and sisters in their Sabbath observance.
On the other hand, those following the lead of the mission administration, by insisting on maintaining an unbroken local weekly cycle, have in my own words, “hit the International Dateline like a speed bump at 55 mph, and lost the Sabbath out the back of their truck.” Sunday observance is the highly unfortunate result.
I haven’t read all the comments, because quite frankly some of them are long…
So I don’t know if this has been said before, but I will say it now:
Samoa has chosen to switch over the time zone to match with New Zealand and Australia, even switched their driving to the other side of the road. They have been coming away from American influence and leaning more towards Australian/NZ way of living.
They need to do the same with their days, match it according to what NZ & AU are following. What day do SDA Churches in AU/NZ worship on?
Samoa cannot still keep their calendar in sync with America.
Dear Meeh,
Aren’t your own words “I haven’t read all the comments…” very good evidence, even proof, of each one’s freedom to choose whether, or how much, to read out of any one’s posted comment?
Tags
Current Week’s Lesson
Weekly Lesson
Recent Comments
Do you have a minute?
Please submit here
Recent Posts
Archives
Categories
Category Specific Email
Category Specific RSS
Adventist Voices
Connect with us:
Login | Logout
Contents ©2011 by Sabbath School Net and authors of individual articles. Sabbath School Net is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Sabbath School Department of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. The administrators of Sabbath School Net do not necessarily agree with everything published on this site.